This topic should probably have been added some time ago.
[Updated publish date to bring back to the top]
A Country Divided in Two?
2010 Ukraine Presidential Election Results
EDIT: News updates, videos and links in the comments below]
327 thoughts on “Ukraine, Russia, “The West” And What Comes Next”
Thanks Mary for your concern. These trawlers who trawl the blog (Is that where the word troll comes from?) for someone to attack are very insecure in their opinions. I tolerate them up to a point. Occasionally they are all capable of rational comment but most of the time they target an individual, often together, to try and weaken that individual’s resolve.
What more concerns me at the moment is when I posted the TASS link to the Kiev-manufactured recording at 11.06 p.m. last night on Craig’s blog some time after 2 am the following morning somebody removed the comment. I’m trying to find out who and why.
I doubt it is Craig. He is generally very tolerant of views he does not necessarily hold.
Shaken dem ol’ kozmic blues yet, AA ?
Beautiful sunny day today. Was outside for a lot of it – picked some wild growing raspberries in an Arboretum – they were delicious.
Pity about the news from the rest of the cosmos though…
Glorious weather Squonk…
I had to get out yesterday after watching ch 4 news.. almost shaking with anger…
Doon the coast… Got a wee fire going… with my trusty Flint Stick…and two teeny cotton balls… And i sat there a while with my lady friend Listeningwater
Nature soothes…. Kinda..
been crap for NLC though… Clear skies at Wrong time…Cloud n rain at the Display times.
on the subject of Planes being shot down –
AA; Why do you think MH17 was 200 km off course, taking them directly over the hotly contested zone of Donetsk, rather than over the Western portion (Kiev environs)?
Have you seen pic of the fuselage damaged by what looks like, not shrapnel, but pin/rod type ballistics found on air-to-air missiles?
Enquiring minds want to know.
Ben, yes I posted links to that when it first came out a couple of days ago. Keep up mate. But this is hot off the press and very telling. The Russians have presented their monitoring findings and, although they have not made any accusations, they have asked a lot of questions. The video in this article lasts for half an hour. There is a translator giving an account in English. While the Russians have made no accusations the Americans have accused the freedom fighters, but they have not provided any satellite data to back up their accusations. I am taking a rest from Craig’s blog because I keep getting on-topic comments deleted because they come from a Russian news media outlet. So I am posting it here. If anyone wants to repost it on Craig’s blog, which probably gets more readership, please feel free.
Brian, your sticks and cotton comment made me laugh! 🙂
It’ll just bounce off his armadillo hide, John. I’ve had a post removed that was totally on topic, but if you take it as cough medicine without complaint, it will persist.
I’ve asked a simple question about his entire premise of the last two posts, and he hasn’t the courtesy to respond. I think he’s still interviewing for a job with Charles Crawford.
I can see nobody’s watched the video in the link I provided above. It’s only half an hour. It has not been mentioned in the BBC 10.00 o’clock news.
I’ve read Craig’s latest post blaming Russia. The genocide has been caused by the fascists, funded by the western neocons. They have put out the false information. Civilians are dying daily in Yatsenyuk and Poroshenko’s civil war on a previously peaceful country. Craig, as far as I know, has been a fervent supporter of the underdogs oppressed by rich countries in conflicts. But over Ukraine he has changed my opinion, in that you can get it right sometimes, and get it awfully wrong at others. Russia has provided what evidence it has. It raises a lot of questions but makes no accusations. From day one the US claims to have had evidence that Russia did it but has not provided that evidence. My guess is they are still manufacturing it. Craig has lost it over Ukraine. Never in the field of human conflict, can such an intelligent man provide so few pieces of hard evidence for the case he is trying to make, to enable so many usual detractors from his viewpoint to pat him on the back. Well done Craig.
I actually read the link before you posted here, John. Frankly, the tone at CM makes such a submission suspect unless craig embraces the idea. The Charles Crawford neo-cons rule the roost.
Izzat..what ya meant john….
Very strange world of befuddled info…miss info….
Here is a writer i greatly respect…Finian-Cunningham… Whom is correct in these matters..??????
” In a devastating twist to emerge over the weekend it now seems that the Malaysian civilian airliner downed over Ukraine was most probably brought down as a result of sabotage by the US-backed Kiev regime.
The purpose of this audacious act of mass murder – in which 298 lives were lost – was carried out with the intention of framing the Russian government. Washington, the chief sponsor of the Kiev regime, must have known about the plot, if not being fully complicit in it.
The key to this dramatic twist is the identification of incriminating audio tapes over the weekend as fake – tapes that were created initially to implicate Moscow, as part of a massive black operation involving the destruction of the civilian airliner and all those onboard.”
Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !
22 Jul, 2014 – 9:33 pm
Why, I wonder, is Mr Goss (BSc in distortion and misinformation, NKVD University) absent from this discussion?
Perhaps he’s sounding off chez Squonk again?
Habbabkuk (La vita è bella) !
22 Jul, 2014 – 9:47 pm
Yup, he’s on Squonk, conversing with California Ben, who is spreading his usual poison about Craig, as in
“It’ll just bounce off his armadillo hide, John. I’ve had a post removed that was totally on topic, but if you take it as cough medicine without complaint, it will persist.
I’ve asked a simple question about his entire premise of the last two posts, and he hasn’t the courtesy to respond. I think he’s still interviewing for a job with Charles Crawford.”
I told you to insinuations and slanders wouldn’t be long in coming! (except that they haven’t yet summoned up the balls to post that sort of shit on CM itself)
A very unpleasant parasite. The word is Zoonosis.
A vector. The life cycle of the flea and the tapeworm are interlinked.
Don’t let it get to you Mary, and I won’t. This is what I decided to write this morning.
Perhaps somebody would share it on Craig’s latest post because it contains a lot more factual information than his lengthy rant against Russia, and all things Russian. The question is will it get deleted?
James Phillips has gone missing in Eastern Ukraine. A Londoner he has been working for Russia Today. He went missing near the airport at Donetsk.
Two or three Ukrainian fighter jets have been shot down.
Sorry, it’s Graham Phillips.
Apparently he has been taken hostage near Donetsk airport.
Something is afoot.
Donetsk, Ukraine (CNN) — Two Ukrainian military jets were shot down Wednesday in the eastern part of the country, where pro-Russian rebels have fought against government forces, a Ukrainian military office said.
The pilots ejected, the office said. Information on their condition wasn’t immediately available.
An air defense system shot down the jets after the pilots completed a task in Dmytrivka, a village in Ukraine’s Donetsk region near the border with Russia, the military press office said.
The task is to needle the opposition.
Russian media sources are denying the report on emergency Duma meeting.
I notice Craig is running a Palestinian State/Scottish state comparison with a chart for those in favour of Israel abiding by international Law. I am proud to have been a signatory to this petition which is now approaching 1.5 million signatures.
And on my modest blog for yesterday, which if I had posted on the ‘Air Disaster’ thread at CM’s blog would probably have been removed, it has taken by far the most hits ever in a single day without any input from Craig’s blog.
I put up an O/T comment on the CM latest that a plane is missing over the Sahara with 116 on board. Comment has been removed.
The trolls are unusually silent on the Gaza threads. Are their comments being taken off?
Video at RT link above
At least he still has a sense of humour
Even more damning of Kiev is this. And I’m getting reports (Russian) that the Pravy (Right) Sector or fascist leader Yarosh has been shot dead though cannot find any corroboration. It might be a false story because Yarosh is wanted by Interpol for war crimes.
Still no reporting in the west of the ongoing civil war in Ukraine. No mention that people have taken to the square in Kiev again. No mention of the constant shelling of civilians in Donetsk and Lugansk. No mention of the deaths in one day of some 250 Ukrainian troops near the Russian border.
I know John. The corporate media are under orders to squelch reporting it would seem.
This is the BBC effort this morning.
West warns Russia over Ukraine ‘aid’
Russian tanks on exercises, 1 Aug 14 photo
The UK and US governments warn Russia not to use humanitarian assistance as a pretext for sending troops into eastern Ukraine.
Army ‘heading for victory’
Finding shelter from war
Crimean Tatars on edge
Warship fascinates French
Woman pilot charged
Tourism down in Crimea
Crap indeed Mary. Craig Murray is quite right in his opposition to Israeli-promulgated genocide in Gaza but when it comes to Ukraine he has an unbelievable bias and blindness. Whenever I try to raise the issue my comments get removed. So I comment less and less.
His knee-jerk reaction, in line with the western media, was that the Russians brought MH17 down.
It is virtually certain that two fighter jets from the Ukrainian air force brought down MH17 and yet nothing in our media. Kiev will not release air-traffic control data for that day. The US will not release its satellite images for that day. Why is the west supporting these fascists?
“Crap indeed Mary. Craig Murray is quite right in his opposition to Israeli-promulgated genocide in Gaza but when it comes to Ukraine he has an unbelievable bias and blindness. Whenever I try to raise the issue my comments get removed. So I comment less and less.”
All that shows, Mr Goss, is that you think Craig is right when he agrees with you and wrong when he doesn’t.
Fair enough, but that doesn’t make your endorsement worth very much, does it.
Some reporting here John from a Westcentric perspective though. No mention of any uprising in Kiev.
Ukraine Rebels ‘Willing To Accept Ceasefire’
A rebel leader says a ceasefire will prevent a “humanitarian catastrophe” as the US and UK reject calls for a Russian aid mission.
What a terrible summer this has been. No peace. War and killing on many fronts.
Thanks Mary. From your link Russia wants to supply humanitarian aid.
“It comes as Prime Minister David Cameron and US President Barack Obama agreed any humanitarian mission by Russia into Ukraine would be “unjustified and illegal” during a telephone call on Saturday.”
What two-faced Janus-like hypocrites? That’s politicians for you!
You mean war criminals John.
I found this of Bush and Obomber morphing. Uncanny.
Can’t find Agent Cameron morphing into BLiar.
This one is quite good.
Proves they are interchangeable.
War criminals indeed, Mary!
All you ever end up with out of modern-day conflicts is a failed state. Before Poroshenko’s forces waged civil-war on its own people in Eastern Ukraine more than 90% wanted independence from the Fascists. Now I’ll wage it is nearer 100% and those 1,100 families and friends who have lost loved ones, and the families of countless more injured, will have great difficulty forgiving these evil beings that stole power in Kiev backed by US dollars.
It is time for Europe to tell the US where to go.
Cold War Two
By Bill Blum –
” My personal breath of fresh air in recent years has been the television station RT (formerly Russia Today). On a daily basis many progressives from around the world (myself included occasionally) are interviewed and out of their mouths come facts and analyses that are rarely heard on CNN, NBC, ABC, CBS, NPR, PBS, Fox News, BBC, etc. The words of these progressives heard on RT are typically labeled by the mainstream media as “Russian propaganda”, whereas I, after a long lifetime of American propaganda, can only think: “Of course. What else are they going to call it?”
As for Russia being responsible for “creating the conditions” that led to the shooting down of Flight 17, we should keep in mind that the current series of events in Ukraine was sparked in February when a US-supported coup overthrew the democratically-elected government and replaced it with one that was more receptive to the market-fundamentalism dictates of the World Bank, International Monetary Fund, and the European Union. Were it not for the coup there would have been no eastern rebellion to put down and no dangerous war zone for Flight 17 to be flying over in the first place.
The new regime has had another charming feature: a number of outspoken neo-Nazis in high and low positions, a circumstance embarrassing enough for the US government and mainstream media to turn it into a virtual non-event. US Senator John McCain met and posed for photos with the leader of the neo-Nazi Svoboda Party, Oleh Tyahnybok (photos easily found on the Internet). Ukraine – whose ties to Naziism go back to World War Two when their homegrown fascists supported Germany and opposed the Soviet Union – is on track to becoming the newest part of the US-NATO military encirclement of Russia and possibly the home of the region’s newest missile base, target Moscow.
It is indeed possible that Flight 17 was shot down by the pro-Russian rebels in Eastern Ukraine in the mistaken belief that it was the Ukrainian air force returning to carry out another attack. But other explanations are suggested in a series of questions posed by Russia to the the Secretary-General of the UN General Assembly, accompanied by radar information, satellite images, and other technical displays:”
“Why was a military aircraft flying in a civil aviation airway at almost the same time and the same altitude as a civilian passenger aircraft? We would like to have this question answered.”
“Earlier, Ukrainian officials stated that on the day of the accident no Ukrainian military aircraft were flying in that area. As you can see, that is not true.”
Thanks for that link to Blum , Brian, it is to be seen what the EU’s politicians make of letting one of the oldest fascists in Europe join their club, devastatoing if its allowed to happen.
If Ukraine is allowed to take the course of joining the EU, then I question its existence and aims under the statutes of Rome. If the EU is just another US concubine to be used as they see fit, then this will cause turmoil in Europe, undermining everything that has been established sofar.
A break up of the EU would suit the US economy, the Ukraine’s joining will split the EU and weaken its position as a possible balance to a rising east Asia and Russia, and the US on the other hand, it will be a backward step into the 1970’s of fear and loathing, more colonial proxy wars and ‘shite’.
I will not be a supporter of the EU anymore if its just a holding pen for fascists worldwide.
PS Had my lift cancelled to the DTRH, so unless something else crops up, I’m unlikely to attend, but still coming up in September.
Excuse the frivolity but quite a good satire.
The orderly Russian convoy (could the West rustle up such a smart looking job?) heading for Ukraine is being subjected to suspicion by the gangsters-in-charge and their stenographers.
eg13 August 2014 Last updated at 13:59
Ukraine crisis: Russian aid convoy sits and waits
Russia’s aid convoy sets of before dawn, apparently heading to Rostov.
14 August 2014 Last updated at 06:22
Ukraine crisis: Russia aid convoy heads south
Although the BBC has rarely mentioned the genocide in Ukraine today it made brief reference to the more than 2,000 killed in Eastern Ukraine. The west should never be forgiven after funding regime-change then encouraging its puppets to take Eastern Ukraine at any cost. Poroshenko, Yatsenyuk, Tyahnybok and their co-conspirators should all go on trial for war-crimes. It is illegal to wage war on your own people. The Nazis of course should also face trial.
The Western gangsters-in-charge and their servants become more ridiculous by the day.
Western media inspect Russian aid convoy to Ukraine and find…..aid
Posted by SueC on August 14, 2014, 6:08 pm
The guys driving and accompanying the convoy are allowing representatives from western media (the Guardian’s Shaun-of-the-dead-Walker is there) to select trucks which they then open and allow the journalists to inspect the contents. So far, they’ve found artillery, heavy weapons and tanks cleverly disguised as wheat, water and baby food. http://rt.com/news/180336-convoy-russia-lugansk-journalists/
It is unfortunate that the drivers seem more keen to speak to the Guardian than the ICRC. Rather encourages the idea that it is a stunt of some kind. White trucks all over the news driving around in circles.
Connecting the dots….http://www.voltairenet.org/article185074.html
“Faced with economic warfare, Moscow has chosen to respond with similar measures, but in agriculture, not finance. Two considerations guided this choice: first, short-term, other BRICS can mitigate the consequences of so-called “sanctions”; on the other hand, medium and long term, Russia is preparing for war and intends to completely rebuild its agriculture to go it alone.
Moreover, the Anglo-Saxons have planned to paralyze Russia from within. First by activating, via the Islamic Emirate (EIS), terrorist groups within its Muslim population, and organizing a media challenge in the municipal elections of September 14. Large sums of money have been distributed to all opposition candidates in the thirty largest cities involved, while at least 50,000 Ukrainian agitators, mixed with refugees, are regrouping in St. Petersburg. Most of them have dual Russian citizenship. This is clearly to reproduce at the provincial level protests that followed the elections in Moscow in December 2011 – with the addtition of violence; and engage the country in a color revolution process to which certain officials in the ruling class are favorable.
In the short term the big winner from the food sanctions looks like being Turkey. A NATO country a lot further down the road to EU membership than Ukraine.
They calmed the storm in Ferguson, Mo., but kindle the fires elsewhere.
“While the world is focused on the first deployment of US marines in Iraq in nearly a decade, as “humanitarian advisors” of course so as not to destroy the Nobel peace prize-winning aura of the US president who is rapidly becoming a warmonger on par with his predecessor, a far more dangerous development took place overnight with nobody noticing, when the Pentagon announced that approximately 600 soldiers from the Army’s 1st Brigade, 1st Cavalry Division will deploy to Poland and the Baltic states to help reassure European allies who feel threatened by Russian military moves. And while most Americans may be geographically challenged, Russians know very well that all of these countries border on Russia. As such this very demonstrative military expansion by NATO powers to “pre-contain” Russian military agression will only lead to one thing: even more “defensive” escalation.
“Although the BBC has rarely mentioned the genocide in Ukraine today it made brief reference to the more than 2,000 killed in Eastern Ukraine”
Mr Goss, you claim to be an educated man.
“Genocide” – how can you spout nonsense like the above? You even contradict yourself in the sentence itself : 2000 deaths in Eastern Ukraine – out of a population of many millions- is, while regrettable, not “genocide”.
How do you expect anyone to take the rest of what you write seriously when you come up with bollocks like that?
Hmmm. How many killed in the baby-step toward genocide? Big things often start small.
Ukraine’s Forces Attack Russian Armoured Convoy
Russian military personnel sit atop armoured vehicles outside Kamensk-Shakhtinsky
British PM David Cameron says he is “gravely concerned” after Kiev’s forces destroyed Russian tanks that crossed into Ukraine.
Kiev’s forces say they attacked a Russian armoured convoy that crossed into Ukraine “and part of it no longer exists”.
Military officials in Kiev said they tracked the vehicles, including armoured personnel carriers, from the border and then attacked with artillery.
Ukraine President Petro Poroshenko discussed the incursion with British Prime Minister David Cameron and said a “considerable part of this equipment was destroyed overnight by Ukrainian artillery”.
Mr Cameron expressed “grave concerns” at the situation.
What’s it got to do with Agent Cameron or is he speaking on behalf of Obomber?
Dutch Professor apologizing for MH17 tragedy media coverage in the Netherlands
Wed, Aug 13, 2014
Anti-Human Rights, Phenomenon of Terrorism, Ukraine
By Cees HAMELINK (Netherlands)
Dutch Professor apologizing for MH17 tragedy media coverage in the Netherlands
ORIENTAL REVIEW publishes an Open Letter to President Putin by Dutch Professor Cees J. Hamelink on the furious 3-weeks-long international media campaign blaming Russia in the tragedy of Malaysian Airlines flight MH17 over Ukraine on July 17, 2014. Today when the perpetrators are clearly determined (a Ukrainian air wing supported by air-defence on the ground, as it was recently acknowledged by the mainstream ruling party-affiliated press in Malaysia), the governments of Netherlands, UK and Ukraine are trying to conceal the results of investigation. So now it is critically important not to let them silence the issue. We should demand a transparent investigation and bring the perpetrators (Western-backed criminal regime in Kiev) to justice.
The text was originally published at the web-site of Dutch NGO “Reverse”.
You have a point, but Mr Goss is claiming that there is a genocide now. And that is a shameful misuse of that word.
the deliberate killing of a large group of people, especially those of a particular ethnic group or nation.
The use seems apt to me.
Massacre too. We could use the old French word too.
[mas-uh-ker] Spell Syllables
the unnecessary, indiscriminate killing of a large number of human beings or animals, as in barbarous warfare or persecution or for revenge or plunder.
a general slaughter, as of persons or animals:
“the massacre of millions during the war.”
1575-85; (noun) < Middle French massacre, noun derivative of massacrer, Old French maçacrer, macecler, probably < Vulgar Latin *matteūcculāre, verbal derivative of *matteūca mallet (see mashie, mace1); (v.) < Middle French massacrer
Word Origin and History for genocide. From the Greek of course.
1944, apparently coined by Polish-born U.S. jurist Raphael Lemkin in his work "Axis Rule in Occupied Europe" [p.19], in reference to Nazi extermination of Jews, lit. "killing a tribe," from Gk. genos "race, kind" (see genus ) + -cide. The proper formation would be *genticide.
Online Etymology Dictionary, © 2010 Douglas Harper
“It is hardly a secret that the conflict in Ukraine has less to do with “Russian aggression” and “European values” than with NATO expansion and Pipelineistan. Even as the NATO-backed Ukrainian regime and Russia are moving closer to a direct military confrontation, all the European Union seems to care about is the stable delivery of gas. After the freaks in Kiev announced that they may halt Russian energy transits through Ukraine, EU officials lost no time in reminding them of Europe’s priorities, which can be easily summarized: When Europe has to choose between Ukraine and Russian gas, the gas wins every time. Shortly afterwards, the European Council issued a statement urging Kiev to “to closely coordinate with the European Commission any actions regarding the transportation of Russian gas.” With energy transits through Ukraine threatened, Russia’s South Stream pipeline blocked and Azerbaijan’s Trans Adriatic Pipeline (TAP) still in the works, some countries are now even considering to revive the Nabucco project in order to bring Iranian gas to Europe:”
It’s always about cash, or the bartered equivalent.
Mary, I do believe you’ve shut up the big-mouthed small-minded interloper. Not for long I suspect, but well done. And thank you for the Dutch professor’s letter. When the truth gets out, and they will not be able to cover this up like they did Lockerbie, the world will know that western governments supported a fascist genocidal unelected government against an honest resistance who are fighting for real freedom.
“Mary, I do believe you’ve shut up the big-mouthed small-minded interloper”
dream on, Mr Goss. It’ll take more than obsessive twits like you and Mary to silence me.
PS – nice deviation, Mary – we’re talking about “genocide “and you suddenly give a definition of a “massacre”.
And even that doesn’t fit the bill, does it.
Comments are closed.