The General Discussion Thread

[Publish Date updated to restore to front page]

Okay as an experiment here it is. Discuss your favourite generals here!

Well perhaps… Really this is simply the place to post news-items, fun-items or whatever takes your fancy. In short just post what you want here.

It’s just another wee experiment – comments welcome.


[Image: General Sir Anthony Cecil Hogmanay Melchett (Stephen Fry)]

13,285 thoughts on “The General Discussion Thread

  1. Here it is Super Bowl Sunday and I don’t give a shit. Last year we went to Disneyland assuming crowds would be small. If I never see the Greediest Place on Earth again it will be no surprise. No offense to the other side but it made a Gay Pride Parade in West Hollywood look like a Tecate Run with Sonny Barger on point. Never saw a bigger flock of narcissistic peacocks. Rant off. Weather keeps us home but the Super Bowl seepage keeps us cynical.

  2. Brian : “Glen I Hope You Forgive

    Brian, there’s nothing to forgive! As far as I’m aware, you’ve always been an honourable person I am proud to count as a friend. In that thread, I was just pointing out to BlunderingBust that he would do well to listen to you (and Clark for that matter).

    Back in Holland now, it was great to spend a couple of months in Portugal. Might spend more time there in the future, Brexit permitting. Not sure how the Europeans will treat us anymore.

  3. Whenever Blunderbuss tries to say anything substantial, it’s wrong. Oops, I hope I didn’t just infringe free speech again…

    “Not sure how the Europeans will treat us anymore”

    As a laughing stock, I suspect; even more so than before.

  4. Glen..Thank’s a .. Strained World with virtually no Ears.. They moved our Jiu Jitsu to a Fucking Echo room .. I can’t hear.. Yet they Need My Expertise ..esp to Grade an Up comming 2 dan

    well.. at the same time .. Theres Yemen.. the up- comming carnage in Latin america..Ect

    no luck yet ..the computer is downlading the pics I think.. Dcim seems to be a missing File Or maby the camera needs conected.. I’ll get it figured eventually.. Thanks again

  5. Phil : Right down in the south, mate – Algarve. In fact, walked from Sagres to the most southern westerly tip of Europe. Quite nice there, T-shirt & shorts every day, only rained briefly a couple of times. Had to watch the sun, though, it was surprisingly strong.

  6. I’ve never been to the west coast of Algarve. I hear the beaches are really something. Spent some time around Olhão before but last year was further north. Very nice part of the world.

  7. I was in Portugal in the early ’90s, stayed in Algarve, and then Lisbon. The whole country seemed like two contrasting worlds, a new, partial one overlaid onto the old one. The new development seemed to have had a lot of money thrown at it; this was said to be EU money. There were three currencies; Portuguese escudos, of which you needed hundreds or thousands to buy a bar of chocolate; US dollars; and euros, though I never saw euros in use.

    Milk was supplied in plastic bags, so you couldn’t even put it down after you’d opened it. Dogs ran in packs on the street, and I often saw dead dogs at the sides of the roads. Much of the land had trees which had strips of bark removed, circling the trunk; I thought that “ring-barking” was a way of killing a tree, but I was told that this was how cork was made. In Lisbon I saw a massive shanty-town, improvised corrugated steel shelters across a whole hillside.

  8. Yeah I first went to Portugal in the mid nineties. I saw oxen still used to plough! I never saw dollars being used though. No wonder you didn’t see the euro – it wasn’t introduced until this century!

    Cork is still big business and the trees protected. Packs of dogs still roam – although this does seem to be more down south but that may well be just my limited experience. All over the country there’s a lot of angry dogs chained up in yards.

    Not sure about Lisbon but Porto still retains a large working class poor in the centre, although last year I noticed people with money slipping into doors, maybe gentrification underway.

    I really enjoy the fado music found in Porto and Lisbon.

  9. Yeah the dogs were Algarve rather than Lisbon. There may have been talk of ‘eurodollars’, or maybe dollars were being used as a precursor to euros, or something; my memory is vague on this because it didn’t involve me. I was with NYJO; me and the musicians had escudos. Larger transactions occurred in dollars or eurodollars or whatever they were, but us oiks weren’t involved with those.

    “One dollar” of reactivity is the margin in a nuclear reactor between criticality and prompt criticality, and it isn’t much. Below criticality reactor power begins declining to zero, and at prompt criticality the reactor destroys itself within milliseconds.

  10. My wife and I really enjoyed Portugal, we have been to Porto twice. The pre historic cave/rock scratching’s and paintings in Foz da Coa are out of this world and well worth a visit, but you have to book in Porto and it takes a whole long day, most of it on an idyllic train ride.
    Porto itself has got pockets of poverty and they try to hide it, no major tourist routes explain how Porto developed over the century.
    We took the ‘alternative tour’ organised by two unemployed architects who knew the ins and outs of Porto’s planning history, it was a great day and they do it for donations.
    they do have a little website now and I recommend anyone to try out their tour.

  11. Nevermind, being a keenish student of really old stuff I’d love to see those cave paintings. I will do that if I go back. They look miles away from Porto though. Thanks for the website link, I’ll take a look when I have time later.

  12. It is a relief Phil, but they were convicted of endangering an airport, which they were very careful not to do. It’s a terrorism related offence which will affect the rest of their lives, but what they did was activism, and in no way terrorism.

  13. Yeah but the state misusing laws far beyond the original intention is as old as…laws. Celebrate your comrades liberty. Good stuff mate.

  14. I’m glad to hear that the 15 were acquitted, but as Clark says it will change their life’s forever. They will be marked for life and I would not be surprised if they are singled out for special attention should they ever want to fly anywhere.
    Currently we have the mad squad above our heads practicing attack loops….again…. they are everywhere.

    When we were in Porto last time we met a group of students going up a venicular railway. They were all dressed in their university attire and quiet jolly singing as we entered the cabin about to go up.
    They said that they were here from another university in Coimbra and that they meet once a year to sing their way round Porto, dancing and generally have a jolly good time.
    So I took the opportunity to sing them a song in return, the one I remembered best from my heimat in Hamburg. They were tickled pink and as we disembarked on top they returned the favour and sang another little ditty.
    My Portuguese is not as good as to know what they sang but it sounded of much camaraderie and togetherness, what a day we had.

    I also have been in the Algarve during the late seventies and once in early 1980. I find the difference quiet stark. The people in the Algarve are less friendly more brash and think the tourists are too bold, letting their hair down for their annual holiday, baring all, whilst their children are watching bare breasts from the clifftops,etc.etc.
    Portuguese people in the north are more friendly and genuine, some are very poor, there is no social benefit system, just charity, but they treat you like a human not like a pesky tourist.

    This for phil
    We booked our visit and a guide in Porto’s tourist office the day before we took the train very early from Sao Bento main station in Porto, you get a reasonable return for less than 30 Euro’s, as far as I can remember, to Pocinho, the last station before the spanish border were the train stops, from there you get a bus into Foz da Coa, were you find the tourist office and collect/wait for your pre booked guide. Then the fun starts.
    Foz da Coa is a small hill top town, roughly comparable to Doune, or Southend, a school, bus station,a main road, some B&Bs, a hotel or two, tourist office and a small church with wonky pillars. It is known and well visited for its Almond blossoms in the spring. We had to wait until 1pm before our guide took us down to the Coa Valley, it was drizzling all day and were very careful as most of the valley was full of slate. We saw some awesome late paleolithic art/scratchings.
    That site was occupied for over 5000 years and its sustainable food source was hunted above the valley, they drove the animals towards the gorge and getting on to the slippery eroded slate covering the sides of the gorge in their panic, they fell to their death and were slaughtered. there is also fish in this unusual glacial river.

    Unusual because it flows south to north and is fed by glacial water from near the Spanish border. We had a great day, ate some tripe and rice dish and returned to Porto late, all in a magnificent day, lots of exercise scrambling around like goats, slept well after that.
    Here is a little video to show a few gems, there are over 5000 in this UNESCO site and its very likely the most prolific site for cave art anywhere in the world.

  15. Nevermind

    “ will change their life’s forever. They will be marked for life..”

    I do think it’s tempting to overstate the negative impact. Yes, they will have their records updated on some god awful acpo db but it’s really easy to get on these. They might, or might not, get delayed at an airport sometime. On the upside they saved lives. They scored a political win. They’re not in prison. They will, I hope, be proud and invigorated.

    We do not live in a police state. This prosecution is bog standard fayre for a liberal democracy. The capitalist state, be it democratic or authoritarian, defends itself with violence. Sure, it shouldn’t be so, or whatever one might dream about, but reality suggests you’d easier hold back the tide.

    “Currently we have the mad squad above our heads practicing attack loops….again…. they are everywhere.”

    Ah, is this the old ‘bad apple’ analysis? If so, please see my squonk comment from last week. “What ails us is not down to the character of people”…here. This bad-apple/great-men-of-history stuff is fundamentally mistaken. More than happy to discuss this idea if you’re interested.

    “Unusual because it flows south to north…”

    Hey? Do rivers for some reason normally go north to south (perhaps towards equator?)? That can’t be right can it?

    Thanks for the cave info. I’d love to see them.

  16. Phil, I took it that Nevermind meant that most of the rivers flow the other way which is generally towards the coast, whereas that one heads inland a long way. I don’t know and I haven’t looked at a map though.

  17. the river Coa joins the Douro and there once were plans to dam it for hydro power, but since the paleolithic paintings were discovered, these plans have disappeared, its an awesome gorge.

    As a past NVDA protester and GP treehugger I know how good it feels when your fellow supporters are winning a court case. And they did save lifes and should feel proud of their actions, but they will be marked as many past protesters still are.
    I’m sure that my name is in somebodies book somewhere, but I don’t care, too old to worry about repression, its unsustainable living and global warming excesses, a total lack of understanding by the oil and gas giants, and underinvestment in alternatives that scrambles my mind today.

    Our increasing lack to influence, the lack of democratic accountability will make it even harder for our children and grandchildren to stand up to these ever merging large leviathans, so if we don’t do the fighting, they will have no chance at all.

    ‘Goetterdaemmerung’ or Raknarok, the twilight of the gods, is an apt term for the times we live in.

  18. Sorry Guys I have Been Staying out of this..Lack Of Knowledge..

    I Must Say though..I was Amazed By Nevermind on Loch Lomond..Luss Grave Yard.. I was So Amazed. The Letters Mean Centuaries.. Just Wow… Cheers Nevermind on that one.

  19. Looking at Ben’s links, they both start with:

    www dot google dot com slash url

    So they both link to Google rather than the link Ben tried to post. From there on, question marks and ampersands act as delimiters, so below I’ll set out the coded gobbledegook on separate lines to clarify it a bit:

    url=(the actual URL but with punctuation characters replaced)

    url=(the actual URL but with punctuation characters replaced)

    Three lines interest me particularly; ved, psig and ust. Parts of them vary between the two, other parts don’t. I’ve broken them up to clarify this:

    ved=2ahUKEwi xwqPA0 q_gAhW M11QKHd8-CiY QzPwBegQIARAC
    ved=2ahUKEwi 7_p-06 q_gAhW TFXwKHTwLDmk QzPwBegQIARAC

    psig=AOvVaw0 ZEe0S51Cr3w7rbCw9UN_0
    psig=AOvVaw0 iCh0mMLxm3xEa3xRPFj1x

    ust=15498 35826126914
    ust=15498 42243353213

    I took a guess that the last term (ust) is “UNIX standard time”, and it turns out that it very probably is, but for some odd reason it’s in the future, because the UNIX time, if I look it up now, is:


    …which was that many seconds since Jan 01 1970 UTC.

    The longest of the values, ved, can take nearly 2 times 10 to the power of 81 different values; it could individually number every atom in the visible universe!

  20. Ben, I think, at the very least, Google will be using this to discover precisely who follows your links. Say I click on your link. It takes me to Google instead of the page you wanted me to see. On arrival, Google gets to see these unique identifiers it infiltrated into your link.

    2 times ten to the power of 81 is a 2 with 81 zeros after it. The actual number is 64 multiplied by itself 45 times, 64 being the number of characters available (26 lower case letters, 26 upper case letters, dash, underline and the ten digits 0 to 9) and 45 characters being the length of the code.

    Nosey bloody company, Google; it’s time someone gave it a bloody nose in return. Their YouTube platform also has to be the biggest promoter of fake news and conspiracy theories that ever existed, by a wide margin.

  21. That’s way over my pay-grade clark.

    “If the special counsel hasn’t subpoenaed Deutsche Bank, he can’t be doing much of a money-laundering investigation,” Schiff said.

    Good point. I pray we aren’t being doped on the ropes.

  22. Ben, take a few deep breaths and then read through the following with deliberation. It looks like gobbledegook, but it isn’t as complicated as it seems.

    Google’s long links are made of sections. The first division is marked by the “?” (there’s only one), and subsequent divisions are marked by “&” (there are six). The address you actually wanted to link is between the fourth and fifth “&”, like this:


    The “&url=” bit tells Google that the next bit is the address; URL means “web address”. So if we strip that off we’re left with:

    It still doesn’t look quite like an address, but %3A is the code for a colon and %2F is the code for a slash. It might even work without correcting those; I’ll find out when I post this comment. But if we substitute those in we get:

    And that’s your original link!

  23. The main trick is to stay calm enough that the gobbledegook doesn’t confuse you. ? and & are separators. “url=” means “what follows is the address”, within which %3A is a colon and %2F is a slash. The long strings of upper and lower case letters, digits, underlines and dashes are only intelligible to Google.

  24. So:

    1 – Paste your link.
    2 – Delete everything up to and including &url=
    3 – Delete the next & and everything after it.
    4 – Replace the %3A with :
    5 – Replace each %2F with forward slashes /

    And Bob’s your uncle!

  25. Wow, Clark how I wish I could speak your techy Lingo.. Amazing stuff Dude

    And all that just because innocents ( Ben ) wants to share info.

    I was out the garden for an hour.. Crystal clear skies, a young moon near Mars..even the Orion Nebula was very bright.. Then a wind chill kicked up making the cold.. Colder.

    Ages since I heard the mention of Afrend..that gave me a wee chukle.. ta.

  26. Brian, I think the problem is Google data-mining, by using Ben’s Android system. Android is released by Google, so when Ben tries to “share” a link, Android modifies the link to point at Google instead, so that Google can see who followed Ben’s link. Ben’s original link is embedded within the modified version so that the Google page can redirect to the original. But Android has embedded a load of other information into Ben’s link too, so that the intervening Google page can see who posted the link and a load of other stuff as well.

    Those links are nowhere near as complicated as they look, but we’re used to seeing words and numbers, not long strings of random-looking characters. If you can just keep your mind from boggling it’s really quite simple. Here’s a really simple example; a search for “werritty” at Craig’s blog:

    So the question mark ends the address, and then it says: search term equals “werritty”. Here’s another simple example from YouTube:

    So again, it’s divided up by question marks and ampersands. Translation: …is the web address of the page, the place your browser will go to.

    ? …marks the end of the address and the start of the ‘query’.

    v=gNvrrhxC1sg …says, “the video identifier equals gNvrrhxC1sg”

    &t=92 …says, “and the time equals 92 seconds”

    So the whole thing takes you to 92 seconds into that specific video. Getting more complicated, here’s the result of my Google search for “bananas”:

    So again it starts with the address of the page:

    Next, again, comes the question mark, which separates the page address from the ‘query’. Then it says:

    client equals Ubuntu
    and channel equals fs
    and hl equals en-GB
    and source equals hp
    and biw equals [blank]
    and bih equals [blank]
    and q equals bananas
    and btnG equals Google plus Search
    and gbv equals 1

    Now I don’t know what most of those mean, but some of them are obvious. “client=ubuntu” names Ubuntu, the operating system I’m using. “hl=en-GB” obviously says the language is British English. “q=bananas” is clearly my search term. The rest I can’t work out.

    As you can see, all three examples are similar in structure.

  27. When I posted the result of my search for ‘bananas’, the link gave away information about me and my system; that I’m using the Ubuntu operating system and my browser is set to British English. But it’s quite easy to sanitise, by only including the bits you want. So below is my construction; it’ll be displayed as a link, and we can try it and see if it works. I’ll just put the address, the query marker ?, the “search equals bananas” term and the language term. I’ll reverse the last two terms as an experiment:

  28. Ben, maybe there’s a short cut. Are you tapping “share” on an Android device to get your links? If so, try doing it manually. Somehow you have to display the address bar; I don’t know how you do that on your browser, but once you’ve got it, copy it manually (touch, hold and then drag across it) and paste it.

    I think I’ve worked out the fallacy driving this ecological catastrophe; neoliberalism exults getting rich as the highest virtue, but someone doesn’t have to be particularly intelligent or logical to get rich. The people with most influence over governments, the rich, must think that science is just another belief system; if what it says is inconvenient then it can be ignored. The seven comments starting from this one:

  29. Clark / Ben – it might help illustrate your point about translating these separators.

    Separator = character like / _ – :

    These appear in the ASCII table as shown below:

    When you get a percentage sign followed by a 2-digit hexadecimal number, look up the character that corresponds to the hex number in the chart referenced above, and use that to complete your ‘clean’ URL.

  30. Ben, yes there is. The original address begins at the second www dot, and there should only ever be one, so the whole of:

    www (dot)

    is redundant, just added to make those following the link to Hollywood Reporter pass through Google on their way. Delete that section and you’re left with:
    – – – – – – –

    Every page on the ‘net begins with http:// or https:// which specifies the protocol, HyperText Transfer Protocol and HyperText Transfer Protocol Secure respectively – I’ve capitalised the letters to illustrate the acronymic nature of the protocol specifier. Next, always, comes ://

    As with www. these are only ever needed once, at the beginning, so if you see them more than once, be suspicious!
    – – – – – – –

    A note on Glenn’s note – “Hexadecimal” is base sixteen numbers, which are used in computing because they have have a very simple correspondence with binary. Simply put, they count up to 15 before they carry into the next column, rather than 9. But the digits only go up to 9, so the capital letters A to F are used instead:

    Decimal Hex
    0 0
    1 1
    2 2
    8 8
    9 9
    10 A
    11 B
    14 E
    15 F
    16 10
    17 11
    18 12


  31. Ben, after the protocol specifier (almost always the secure one https:// since Snowden’s revelations) and the www dot comes the domain name.

    So, if you visit Squonk’s blog, the domain is:

    That’s the domain that AA/Squonk (the person) owns. Likewise, the BBC owns, and Hollywood Reporter owns

    They can usually be used with or without the preceding www dot which doean’t really do anything.

    So if the page you looked at was at Hollywood Reporter, but your link comes out starting with or anything other than that’s a giveaway that crap has been added.

  32. Glenn, in practice, the only ASCII/Hex equivalents that Ben is ever likely to have to replace are:

    :// colon slash slash which comes out as %3A%2F%2F and
    / slash which comes out as just %2F

  33. Clark, it’s ok, I fessed up to being Afrend long ago. I didn’t follow your link but feel free to say that Afrend nowadays recommends the superior filter of not visiting blogs that promote conspiracy and bad apple analysis.

  34. SMPTE: now there’s a transitional technology that I loved. Syncing an Atari 1040 / sampler to tape was at the time simply amazing.

  35. Phil, I think Craig got embarrassingly carried away by the Skripal fiasco, and indeed descended into conspiracy theory. He retracted his first gross error (the airport camera pictures), but I was disappointed that he didn’t retract the second (I don’t recall what that was).

    But fair doos man; Craig started out right about that matter. The media did fail to mention that Porton Down is just up the road. The government did immediately embark on a major propaganda offensive pinning it on Russia, before the meagre circumstantial evidence became available. A prominent presenter did assist the propaganda campaign while remaining silent about his prior involvement with Skripal. A journalist did act as a secret service mouthpiece. Craig did right in pointing out all of these.

    OK, it’s fair criticism to say that Craig’s politico-structural analysis is lacking, but his value is not in being a political analyst, it’s in being a whistleblower and a conduit for leaks. That has value too. There isn’t just one type of good stuff; nature’s lesson is diversity.
    – – – – – – –

    The request for Habbabreak was because someone wants relief from Anon1’s racist droning. I put up a link to Greasy Fork, but someone said that the script was no longer there. I didn’t mention Afrend at Criag’s.

  36. What about all the rest? The photoshopped image of Jim Murphy, the against the odds coin toss wins of Hillary Clinton, the daring theft of the North Sea…

  37. Hi Ben

    No Trow has not been around for a few days now.. Not Here or next door.

    He was At Cm more recently than here though..Hope all is ok..Sometimes we need away from Cyber world, I think he still wants to come to Scotland

    Clark.. Thank you for Your patience in writing all that for the Layman ( me ) You made it all so simple, even I could Follow.. Though, not all of it.. But thanks

    Was Phill really Afrend.. Fucking Great stuff..Great taste in Telesopes Too

    Glen / Clark I had No Idea about Hex..Till I read the Martian. I wont Lie that I understand it Though.. Not Yet. Yikes.

    Stay Well Squonk’s

  38. Brian, yes, that’s the full basic set. There’s loads more too, for all the characters from other languages. But you will very rarely need the vast majority. the ones that crop up all the time are colon and slash, as above.

  39. Fred, I’m working on it. I think I’m doing reasonable well at challenging conspiracy theory in the comment threads, and you know how contagious such stuff is.

    But that North Sea border looks pretty dodgy to me; it zooms off north!

    You don’t mind a conspiracy theory or two when it suits your objectives though, do you? On the threads you’re often quoting the corporate media, and in real life, well, I can’t say much because of privacy issues, but you sure took the conspiracy theorist’s side against me.

  40. So borders aren’t permitted to zoom off north now, that’s sure going to make the Welsh happy.

    The line between fisheries protection areas follows the line which is equidistant, that’s normal. It was agreed by the Scottish government not sneaked in secretly the night of devolution.

    Doesn’t it worry you that spreading untruths like claims of theft of territory fuels hatred among the nationalists? Saying “they’re stealing our sea” is no different to saying “they’re stealing our jobs” or “they’re stealing our women”.

  41. Brian: Easiest way of understanding hexadecimal is to imagine you have 16 fingers instead of 10. You call the last six A, B, C, D, E and F. So once you get past 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8 and 9, you’d continue a,b,c,d,e,f. Then it’s hex-10 (which is really 16 in our usual decimal notation).

    So hex 10 = decimal 16, and hex 20 = decimal 32…. hex F0 = decimal 250, so FF = 255 (16×16 -1).

    (hex FF = 16 x 16 -1, in just the same way decimal 99 = 10 x 10 -1)

    Hex 8000 = 32768 (8x16x16x16), Hex FFFF = 65535 (16x16x16x16 -1), and so on. It’s just much simpler to convert hex to binary and back, because each hex digit can be represented by 4 binary digits – very convenient in the hardware world, so it also has huge implications for software.

  42. When I was young we bought things in pounds not kilograms. A pound was 16 ounces so with just a scale, no weights, you could divide it in half to have two 8 ounces, each half in half to have 4 ounces, each quarter in half to have 2 ounces, each eighth in half to have ounces. You could make up any number of ounces you wanted.

    Then we went metric and they called it progress.

  43. Fred, I went all over and spoke to all sorts, and I really never encountered this “nationalist hatred” you go on about. I encountered one chap at a rally who became a bit dismissive when he heard my English accent, and another who was rather over-friendly but had a bit of a superior attitude of which I am sure he was not conscious. Edinburgh during the Indy campaign was absolutely vibrant with the Indy campaigners, who were very inclusive and very friendly.

    Now I see you arguing for British isolationism over units of measurements and a confusing system unsuitable for science, and I wonder if you crave for the vestiges of the glory of Empire from your youth. Don’t pretend it didn’t exist because I remember it. Its pretentiousness sickened me even then.

  44. Fred.. Clark is Correct.. I was on Four AUOB marches Last year.. And several in 2016 / 2017.. If one were to belive bbC .. you would think there were ” few thousand Indy marchers in Glagow ” Try Upwards of at the very least 60.000 that day.. No Police walking along side.. Same at all AUOB marches.. It’s a peacfull, Family movement.. There is Alway the same wee half dozen Brit Nationals that try to wind us up, it’s mostly Always the only time you see police around.. Also we carry international flags on our Marches.. I carry a Palestine Flag on the Marches.. But I was thinking I need A Venezuelan Flag.. A Syrian Flag.. a Yemen Flag.

    Next One is Glasgow.. A Big One,

    Then A great Excuse to go back to our Cottage on Seil’s Atlantic Magic Coast, for a long weekenk – the Oban March.

    Clark ..thank you for your Honest thoughts on our movement.

  45. Glen

    Thank you.. yourself, and Clark have been amazing at making all that Understandable to a non techy.. I shall keep looking into this. it’s frigging Amazing.. I am more interested in the Written Word, writing ect.. But I’ m pleased to At, Long Last to be Interested in Numbers.. Great Stuff indeedio.

  46. I was staying in Glasgow at the time of the Independence referendum. When the result came in, that evening and that night, it was the British nationalists who went on the rampage – because they’d won, it was their victory parade. The woman I was staying with followed it via her Facebook feed.

    Ah ha! Yes, her Facebook feed will have been biased by her choice of friends – but it had been me that had convinced her for independence. Her family background was folks who had joined the British armed forces, and she followed Rangers; I still have the Rangers scarf she gave me, and the army badge.

  47. Yes Brian and that photo of Sean Clerking was just a few nationalists being friendly I suppose. Jim Murphy went out to campaign and had to abandon his efforts, drowned out by nationalists with loud speakers. That is not being friendly and that is not being democratic.

    Then to add insult to injury the nationalist claimed the photos had been photoshopped.

  48. “I was staying in Glasgow at the time of the Independence referendum. When the result came in, that evening and that night, it was the British nationalists who went on the rampage”

    So British nationalist bad Scottish nationalist good I take it?

    Your nationalism is better than their nationalism?

  49. Jeeze Clark.. Amazing how Clued up you are.. Regards the indy movement / result .. Left me in tears .. Sophie and Sarah were in the midst in Freedom Square . Teenagers Abused..
    when we brought up our kids..
    we ALWAYS Banned Rangers and Celtic Shit from the House.. Forbiden.

    we put them into martial arts.

  50. But Brian you are a part of it.

    I’m not a member of any group, I don’t go marching, I don’t wave flags, I have no stickers on my car and on the night of the referendum I was in bed fast asleep. I’m one of the majority and I want to keep it that way, I don’t want the people of Scotland divided one against the other.

    It’s you who is doing the dividing. You had your referendum what more do you want? Why do you want to turn Scotland into another Northern Ireland with Nationalist pitted against Unionist? Can’t you just accept the will of the people? The ordinary people who don’t march or wave flags who made their decision in 2014.

  51. “So British nationalist bad Scottish nationalist good I take it?”

    NO Fred. How many times do I have to say it? I met and spoke to many, many people but I never met any of these “hate filled nationalists” you go on and on about. No supporter of independence that I met called themselves a nationalist, they identified with independence not nationalism; so far as I can tell, “nationalists” is a label that was applied to them by the media – a propaganda term, which you enthusiastically adopted too.

    I kept telling you, and you kept ignoring me; the SNP wasn’t particularly important to most supporters of independence, and some actively disliked the SNP. Alex Salmond was an important figure, but for his support of independence, not the SNP. Just as I predicted, the SNP increased in importance after the blanket propaganda thwarted the independence vote.

    I met absolutely no one who “hated the English”, but they all hated Westminster’s corruption and wars and nukes and antiquated voting system, just as the progressive anti-war English do.

    Fred, if the independence supporters had been as you depict them, I’d have run off immediately; I hate that sort of thing. But I didn’t find that. What I found were a load of people who were a lot more politically aware than the people I find down here; I could talk to them, have sensible political conversations with them. They had seen through the media’s constant pro-war propaganda, and they cared. Down here, my own best friends were calling me a conspiracy theorist for pointing out the corporate media’s propaganda.

    And then the EU referendum confirmed my anecdotal experiences with hard numbers; the Scottish population has far more progressive political sense than the English population. The Scottish population are the inclusive, forward-looking internationalists, while the English population has fallen for the constant anti-migrant propaganda of the corporate media, and has turned to isolationism. Pounds and ounces, eh Fred? Yeah, let’s re-erect another outdated barrier between us and the rest of the world. Ours is better; all those foreigners will see the light eventually. Rule Britannia!

  52. “Jim Murphy is on the Political Council of the Henry Jackson Society, a neo-conservative transatlantic think tank named in honour of Cold War anti-communist US Senator Henry M. Jackson. The society advocates an interventionist foreign policy by both non-military and military methods”

    That’s what they hate about Jim Murphy, Fred. He’s a fucking warmonger, a New Labour sell-out through and through.

  53. If someone had killed one person, it would be entirely justifiable to shout him down if he had the gall to campaign to be elected. But if he’s for killing millions, and supporting Israel, and allying with Saudi Arabia while hypocritically claiming to oppose extremism, and he’s all for overthrowing foreign governments if their country has any oil, well, that’s perfectly respectable, and we’re all meant to stand politely and listen?

  54. Fred
    keep up the music, and thanks for the Camera advice..

    I don’t Know what to should be ashamed of yourself.. Scotland is a NATION..

    The One that London invites Nato to oor waters for Fun…

    And the sea life Dies

    washed on Hebridean Isles

    Nato is out there.

  55. ” Why do you want to turn Scotland into another Northern Ireland with Nationalist pitted against Unionist? Can’t you just accept the will of the people? The ordinary people who don’t march or wave flags who made their decision in 2014 ”

    Fred – “another Northern Ireland ” Dont Fucking Start that Shit …Just DON’T

  56. Fred I don’t Fly Scotland Flag on oor marches..I Fly the Palestine Flag.. There are Lots of them on our marches

  57. British nationalists here in Scotland….

    I’ve not been able to find such clips about Scottish nationalists.
    As for Jim Murphy, he tried hard to create an ‘incident’ with people associated with the ‘Yes’ campaign and failed miserably. Eddie Izzard joined in with one fabricated farce at St Enoch’s in Glasgow and later admitted he only got involved to gain experience for a potential run at being London mayor. Murphy also tried to put pressure on Catholic voters, saying voting SNP rather than Labour was a sin against their religion. Scum is too good a word for that man, in addition to his warmongering background highlighted by Clark.
    Here’s to a better future and change is essential to achieve this.

  58. “NO Fred. How many times do I have to say it? I met and spoke to many, many people but I never met any of these “hate filled nationalists” you go on and on about.”


    Try letting the facts change what you believe instead of what you believe changing the facts. In one breath you say you met no one who hated then you go on to list the things they hate.

    “Scum is too good a word for that man”

    No hatred there then.

  59. That’s right, Fred. I don’t personally know Murphy, so cannot hate him. However, that doesn’t stop me describing Murphy by his actions. He’s a despicable individual, only interested in serving his own and his masters’ interests.
    You, yourself, have used derogatory terms to describe groups of people e.g. Glaswegians, young female Dundonians, illustrating your own brand of hatred, through sweeping generalisations. At the end of the day, I believe you are a dyed in the wool British nationalist and nothing will change that. That’s fine but you leave yourself open to criticism when you attack others with alternative perspectives.

  60. JOML

    I don’t care if Jim Murphy is a shape shifting member of the illuminate he has a right to be heard. Nationalists do not have the right to decide who can or can’t campaign for election on our streets. Stopping people campaigning through intimidation and using amplifiers to drown them out is the tactics of tyrants.

  61. “In one breath you say you met no one who hated then you go on to list the things they hate.”

    If you think that Westminster’s corruption and wars and nukes and antiquated voting system are identical with Englishness, well, much follows from that, and all of it is about you, personally.

  62. Yes Clark, I have commented often on how nationalists always resort to personal attacks and you are no exception.

    You are the only one to have used the word “English” on this page.

  63. Fred, Jim Murphy’s voice was heard loud and clear, with the MSM more than supportive e.g. you could be forgiven for mistaking the Daily Record for a Scottish Labour newsletter. His 100 towns in 100 days was a publicity stunt, specifically organised in the hope of some idiot that could be associated with the ‘Yes’ campaign would attack him. This ploy failed, despite any disruption being blown out of proportion. He certainly was not silenced.
    As for being personal, you often default to calling people who wish Scotland to separate from the UK as a ‘cult’ – a perfect example on this blog a week or so back of you resorting to “personal attacks” i.e. if I don’t like what people are saying, dismiss them as brainwashed cult members.
    Anyway, too close to the weekend for fruitless debate… hope you like Neil Young…

  64. Fred, you’re right; I merely assumed you meant the “nationalists’ hatred” was of the English. You win half of one cleverness point for that (or for noticing that you hadn’t specified), and “nationalists” are indeed very evil to be “full of hate” for Westminster’s corruption and wars and nukes and antiquated voting system.

  65. We are lied to about almost everything all the time, not just manipulating our emotions but also our thoughts. like what the defection of Monica Litt to Iran really means.

  66. SW1P was shut down today by thousands of kids. Everyone had a home made placard (I saw only three sad adults plugging their left / green party bollocks). The kids were disobedient, noisy and on point. Change the system not the climate, banners said. It was the most inspiring demo I have seen in London in a long, long time. Great stuff.

  67. Phil: I’m surprised the authorities didn’t turn the water cannon on them, to give them an early lesson about what democracy in this country’s all about.

  68. The pupils’ strike was in the Extinction Rebellion events list. I wanted to be out today in support of it, but I’m busy with damage limitation from a horrendous bad parenting aftermath.

  69. And Phil, don’t dismiss the Green Party too much. Their members use direct action on coal facilities etc., and they’re involved with the anti-fracking direct actions too.

    Maybe your lot will get the whole world to rise up in time. Meanwhile, these people have a party political iron in the fire as well. Nothing wrong with doing both at once.

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