The General Discussion Thread

[Publish Date updated to restore to front page]

Okay as an experiment here it is. Discuss your favourite generals here!

Well perhaps… Really this is simply the place to post news-items, fun-items or whatever takes your fancy. In short just post what you want here.

It’s just another wee experiment – comments welcome.


[Image: General Sir Anthony Cecil Hogmanay Melchett (Stephen Fry)]

13,285 thoughts on “The General Discussion Thread

  1. I think there may be something quite profound in Brian’s joke. On the surface it’s just a joke about the Irish being stupid. But maybe it isn’t. Take a closer look at that genie. It has overwhelming power, but no discernment; it just indulges people’s immediate impulses. Phil, does that remind you of anything? And look at the order in which the hapless beneficiaries put themselves forward to claim their wishes. All any of them end up with is a drink, but only the Irishman ordered enough to go round. And why didn’t he want to go home?

    Phil, there’s a political message here. Three men in an oppressive situation chanced upon what looked like a higher power, but gained nothing, because they didn’t organise.

  2. Phil, our comments crossed. You wrote:

    “even as the forces that divide us…”

    That’s exactly what the genie did! And your final point:

    “I think we all inevitably to some degree harbour racist attitudes. The honest position is to acknowledge this and resist it from a position of understanding rather than denial”

    is just what I was trying to say that night I lost it round yours.

  3. Ben
    “The bullshit of political correctness …These control -freaks of the putative left …I say FUCK these assholes of control.”

    Do you know the reality of the right wing trope around “cultural marxism”?

  4. Clark

    Fuck it I can respond before leaving. I have to say I love your take on the joke and recognise it becomes profound in that it introduces class consciousness and reclaims the solidarity that is stolen from us. Your reframing is fantastic. Love it.

    I still think it would be a high risk strategy telling the joke here in London!

  5. Me too Phil; speak later.

    Ben, political correctness is more self-trickery from the self-image; superficially virtuous, but inevitably pointing the finger at others. Speaking out about this has got me ostracised from my meditation group, and I’ve been picketing it for some weeks now 🙂

  6. Why do people have to take humour so seriously? Nobody is stupid enough to take it literally, it’s ridiculous, that’s what makes it funny.

    Every part of Britain makes jokes about other parts of Britain, people from Yorkshire get their share of piss taken out of them but we don’t mind, we just make jokes about Welshmen shagging sheep and people from Norfolk shagging their sisters but nobody believes that those practices are in reality any more prevalent in those areas.

    If I was in a group of people who all took the piss out of each other but ignored me I’d be getting worried, wondering why I was the outsider, wondering why they didn’t like me enough to consider me one of them.

  7. An Englishman, a Scotsman and an Irishman are the only survivors of a plane crash in the desert. Though the ordeal has bonded them like brothers they’re all now dying of thirst. It looks like it’s all over until they find a magic lamp!

    “I’ll give each of you two wishes,” says the genie.

    One man knows exactly what he wants and starts to say “I wish for a pint of…” but another interrupts and says,

    “Hello genie, what’s your name?”

  8. The body of man has been recovered from the River Tay, he was naked apart from a Dundee football shirt and had a 12 inch dildo inserted into his rectum.

    Police have removed the Dundee football shirt to save embarrassment to the family.

  9. There were two Glaswegians in a bar when it comes on the news that Netanyahu was coming on a state visit. “This Netanyahu” said Jock “is he a Protestant or a Catholic”. “No Jock he’s Jewish” said Hamish. Jock looked puzzled for a minute or two and then said “Yes, I know, but is he a Protestant Jew or a Catholic Jew?”

  10. Fred
    “Why do people have to take humour so seriously? Nobody is stupid enough to take it literally, it’s ridiculous, that’s what makes it funny.”

    It is not that people have to take it literally. Constant denigration seeps into the culture, into the mind, until it is normalised. Until the hatred, the bitterness, pass unnoticed. It’s only a joke you bender. Can’t you take a laugh Jock. Don’t oppress my free speech with your political correctness you feminist. etc etc It’s always at the expense of others, mostly those oppressed by those who rule over the jokers.

    Many a true thing said in jest. Don’t be so Irish. Don’t throw a paddy. Have you heard the one about the Irishman and the genie?

    To joke about Irish stupidity is to embrace a culture of British (yes British not just English) superiority, to make light of centuries of imperialism that continue to this day. Yes we killed and plundered but what ho the natives are stupid. Those stupid Irish. Ha ha. Daft coons. Only having a laugh faggot. Can’t you take a joke Jock?

    This is not ancient history. It is politics. The lies the British state are still telling about the troubles. The six counties heading back to rule from London. The entitlement of the British ruling class to not even think the Irish border important. I don’t expect Ben to understand all this but I did think Brian and Fred would be less flippant.

    Be honest, would any of you tell that joke in a pub in Galway, Belfast or Dublin? Of course you fucking wouldn’t. Because it is a racist joke. I don’t call you racist for saying it Brian. I do say you said a racist joke without thinking.

    Jokes don’t have to denigrate the oppressed in support of ruling class murder. Other types of humour are available.

  11. In all honestly I lied about my partners reaction. She immediately said it’s a racist joke and didn’t give a shit that a Scotsman said it. She is right. Plenty of Scots in the black and tans. But I wanted to not offend Brian who I know to be a well intended man who doesn’t despise the Irish. But good intentions are not enough. Acts count. Really what else could that joke possibly mean mate? What else was possibly meant. Given the history between Ireland and Britain to claim it has no meaning is idiotic. Denying that it fits like a hand in glove with a culture of oppression is idiotic. We all grew up with these jokes. They are not meaningless.

  12. Sister Sledge | Hawkwind | The Damned | PAWS | Asian Dub Foundation (Official) | Blanck Mass | Gwenno Niteworks | Tiny Ruins and C Duncan have all joined the Doune line up!

  13. Humour can also be more direct and a form of attack, where the topical person definitely doesn’t appreciate the humour…
    Doctor, doctor, can you get pregnant through anal sex?
    Of course you can – where do you think Tory MPs (*) come from?

    (* insert ‘group’ of choice to attack anyone you wish)

    Whatever joke you pass on, it’s important that your audience knows you, so that they can put it into context and not misinterpret your underlying beliefs and attitudes – and focus on the humour. Some jokes are best avoided… like the one I’ve just typed!

  14. So there was an Englishman, a Welshman, an Irishman and an Orcadian on the Orkney ferry when an announcement came over the tannoy that the boat was sinking and could passengers throw anything they didn’t need overboard to save weight. The Irishman picks up a sack of potatoes and throws it over the side, “most generous of you” said the others “oh it’s nothing” said the Irishman “in Ireland we have so many potatoes we are sick of them, you can’t turn round without falling over pile of potatoes”. Then the Welshman takes a sack of leeks and throws it over the side, “most generous of you” said the others “it’s nothing” said the Welshman “in Wales we have so many leeks we are sick of them, can’t move without tripping over leeks”. Then the Orcadian picks up the Englishman and throws him over the side.

  15. Phil

    Your Environment is Different from Mine here in Scotland

    Clark is Exactly correct in his Analysis of that joke.

    I didn’t realize how bad anti Irish the south is…The Actual people.

    We in Scotland Know how Anti Scotland UK gov is

    In all Honestly ..I seen the Joke as A group of guys becoming friends – Brothers..

    I loved the heart felt issue… Nothing More

    And Thats the Last From me on that.

  16. My best friend is Dutch/Indonesian who emigrated here at age 12.

    He’s a bit swarthy and had to endure racist attitudes throughout but he and I laugh like Jackals when were together. I happen to loathe white people having associated with them as equals and only a very few whites have identified with my derogations of palefaces. Most think I’m crazy to be so race- deprecating but those blue eyes coming out of the North are dangerous especially for Britannia.

    Phil: I’m afraid you lost me..

  17. That just A Jibe Fred… Do you really Give A fuck about Native Americans… I Have Met them

  18. Fred:

    I’m largely Irish with NA thrown in as well as African so you know what I think.

    Irish were trash in America until the accent disappeared and that’s the Bitch of Humanity..

    I recall an Anthropological study of a tribe who split socially and even had a few skirmishes over a major difference between two identical groups…earring in right bad…earring in left ear GOOD!

    Fred: are we doing puns?

    Let’s take the gloves off and do some.politically incorrect jokes. Who’s gonna stop us?

    What do the numbers 1776 and 1812 have in common?

    ..adjoining suites at the Warsaw Hilton

  19. I truly think that even if Humans mate indiscriminately and achieve homogeneity…they will find some difference to fight over.

    When you think about it….it’s survival instincts at work..

  20. “if Humans mate indiscriminately and achieve homogeneity…”

    Homogeneity doesn’t happen, because variance is coded for by a small number of genes. In Brazil, black Africans, native Americans and white Europeans have been having children together for centuries, but they haven’t gone coffee-coloured and still show a wide variety of pigmentation. Closer to home, there is still blonde, brown, black and red hair, and a variety of eye colours etc.

    But yeah, the potential for aggression is innate, but its expression is strongly dependent upon, well, lots of social and environmental factors.

  21. Brian
    “I seen the Joke as A group of guys becoming friends”

    I do not doubt that at all mate but look deeper. Culture is the spreading of ideas. The jokes we tell are part of that spread. And by telling jokes in which the Irish are stupid you spread the murderous culture of the British imperial class. Any claim it was just a joke about friends rings hollow. The joke reinforced a stereotype that was created to justify British rule. Think about why it is always the Irishman who is stupid. Why you made the Irish man the stupid one. It is not a coincidence. You have absorbed the culture of the British ruling class.

    Even here on this thread it has been a Scot making jokes about the Irish, an Englishman making jokes about the Scottish. A dig at native Americans which seems to have offended you. Quite right. You are a decent bloke who cares. You don’t like it when jokes punch down in support of oppression. Well, your joke was cut from the same cloth.

  22. Ben
    “Let’s take the gloves off and do some.politically incorrect jokes. Who’s gonna stop us?”

    Really mate? OK. Sure, you go for it. No one’s stopping you. No one’s censoring you. Squonk might at some point I guess, but not the rest of us.

    I wouldn’t recommend you come over to Ireland and do it though. Your rich Irish heritage nor your jovial friend of colour will hold much water if you start spouting anti-Irish, pro-British jokes in the pubs of Dublin. Ignore the requests to desist there and you will get stopped.

    The urge to act tough about the freedom to punch down is both ugly and a sign of insecurity from the group whose privilege as first arse lickers to power is waning.

    But come on Ben, teach us babies a lesson. Let’s hear you proudly assert your rights as a free man. Crack a few about the bitches, the jews, the paddys and the niggers.

  23. There was no dig at Native Americans Phil, there was a dig at some people holding a banner.

    I don’t believe there was any conspiracy to brand Irish as being of low intelligence, I think it’s that there was a wave of Irish immigrants into England to work as labourers building the canals and the railways who tended to be uneducated and from the rural areas of Ireland. People who live in towns and cities used to see people from rural areas as of inferior inteligence, made jokes about country bumpkins and village idiots. I’m sure if you go to Tenerife people will form their opinions of the British based on the people who go on 18-30 holidays.

    What is more worrying is the harm that grievance politics can do. Convince the white working class man he is being discriminated against and even Trump can get himself elected.

  24. RfC re: PC-spec of following potential joke:

    Journalist interviewing Stevie Wonder:

    “Do you think being blind has been an impediment to your musical career?”
    “Oh it could’ve been worse; I could’ve been black.”

  25. Fred
    “There was no dig at Native Americans Phil, there was a dig at some people holding a banner.”

    Fair enough. I didn’t get the point but thought Brian took it as a dig. It’s not important to the wider point.

    “I don’t believe there was any conspiracy to brand Irish as being of low intelligence”

    I didn’t say there was a conspiracy. It’s not a conspiracy. It is culture. It happens all the time. The people who occupy the land desired by empire are denigrated to justify the pillage. They become savages, they eat babies, fail to cultivate land, worship a false god, hide terrorists, make weapons of mass destruction, whatever. The falsehoods start as projected from the ruling class and spread throughout the land in order that people feel less bad about the blood and misery reigning down on those others. Sometimes these truths are sustained over generations so well meaning people just repeat them thoughtlessly, not recognising the propaganda that rolls off their tongue.

    The demonisation of the Irish by the English/British can literally be traced back centuries, long before the wave of immigration you imagine responsible for our jokes. It started in the 13C and became systematic during the reign of Elizabeth 1. The stupid Irishman was a popular trope in the British Press during the potatoe famine. Lots of cartoons about the Irishman who didn’t know how to sow seeds. The farmer too drunk to grow potatoes. And so on and on.

    Your anecdote about a wave of genuinely stupid Irish immigrant canal builders being responsible for the stupid Irishman stereotype is just another manifestation of ingrained anti-Irish bigotry in British culture.

    All those Irish jokes that we used to know. Come on Fred. So many. Said in the same breath as jokes about blacks and chinamen. Surely you must recognise how they perfectly fit the pattern of denigrating the victims of empire.

    Repeating stupid Irishman jokes is embracing a culture imposed on us by a ruling class who operate by divide and rule. Fuck that. Reject the culture that keeps you in chains and aims to make you complicit with the crimes of the rich. Question why jokes that punch down make you laugh. Then stop repeating these jokes. Other types of humour are available.

  26. Phil: the quality of humor should not be strained, but laughing at oneself is not universal.

    As I earlier said a sense of humor must include self deprecation.

    Sometimes I think Phil smiles through clenched teeth. It’s difficult for you to be playful and that is typical of thin-skinned persons who have suffered indignities in the past and they’ll be damned if they will forgive and forget. C’mon Phil..conflict is what they seek hiding behind self-righteous revenge but decorating it as civility. In reality it’s another form of bullying.

  27. Ben
    “As I earlier said a sense of humor must include self deprecation.”

    But these jokes are the exact opposite of self deprecation. They are denigrating the other in service of power.

    These jokes are also the exact opposite of “playful”. The humour is absolutely rooted in real violence on others. And of course the tellers, as you do Ben, then play the victim and claim they are being bullied when they are challenged. Hilarious.

  28. But Phil, the exact same jokes are told all over the world with only the nationalities changed. I wouldn’t mind betting that the Irish tell Englishman, Scotsman and Irishman jokes with the Englishman the butt of the joke.

  29. Fred
    “I wouldn’t mind betting that the Irish tell Englishman, Scotsman and Irishman jokes with the Englishman the butt of the joke.”

    No they don’t. You might here the odd thing about Englishmen, and that can get ugly sure, but there is nothing like a similar compulsive need to constantly run down the English. There is not the history of a political class and press that promoted constant hatred against the English. The number of jokes we knew as kids Fred! It was a lot. It was constant. I know you know that. It was inescapable. Everywhere. All the time. There is no equivalent of centuries of this in Ireland.

    This idea that everyone is at is just rationalising our ingrained bigotry. Sure many peoples will make jokes about the neighbours. But the targets of our jokes are from all over the globe. From all the places we invaded. It’s demonisation seeped into culture.

  30. Phil, you are spot on with your assessment there. In Scotland, the “teuchters” (people from the Highlands and Islands) were/are the butt of the same jokes as the Irish. Only today I heard a guy at work describe the Gaelic Alba channel as “Teuchter TV”, so these mind games are powerful stuff. That said…

    A Teuchter from Oban was down in London for work and he stayed in the hotel bar in the evenings rather than risk going out in the big smoke. He was approached by a scantily glad girl, who always seemed to be there. They chatted and the Teuchter bought her a few drinks. After a while, the girl started asking him to take her up to his room but he was having none of it as he liked sitting in the bar – being blissfully unaware of the real situation. Eventually, the girl got so frustrated she told him straight, “Look here, I’m a call-girl!”
    The Teuchter’s eyes lit up and he replied, “what a coincidence – my mother’s from Tiree!”
    (PS. Coll is an island next to Tiree.)

    Now, I’d tell that joke to ‘Teuchters’ but I wouldn’t tell it to other people as that may just reinforce their prejudices and stereotypes of people from the Highlands.

  31. Fred

    You know that most Irish people in Britain were subjected to racism. It is undeniable. You know that. The experience of British people in Ireland was entirely different. There was never state sponsored systematic oppression. To say it’s just the same is simply not true. The levels of violence committed against the immigrant, the level of problems finding housing, jobs, Bernard Manning slating you on the tele, the number of false convictions. None of these things are equivalent for a Brit in Ireland as it was, and to a lesser degree still is, for an Irish in Britain. The jokes are part of this culture. You can’t just pretend there is no context when you say these jokes.

  32. comment removed by me cause i started speculating…and don’t want to lose my point to speculation.

  33. Phil, JOML was reinforcing what I said, Teuchter is a Scots term of endearment, much the same as someone from London calling someone in the West Country a yokel. I get affectionately called White Settler or sometimes FEB.

  34. Fred, ‘Teuchter’ is normally used in a demeaning and offensive manner, in my experience – as it was used at my work today here in Edinburgh. And FEB (fucking English bastard) is certainly not a friendly term – at best, it’s used to make a fool of someone, behind their back.
    As for ‘white settler’, I was familiar with that term in a Highland context since the 70s. Never really sat comfortably with me and much preferred the term ‘blow-in’ when I heard this in a village in Galway – although I don’t know the origins of that term.
    I hope anyone who has called you a ‘FEB’, Fred, is a close friend and you knew it was a joke!

    It certainly is a minefield when you slow down and think…

  35. Sassenach is a derogatory term as well JOML, all cultures have them and all cultures use them.

    How do Glaswegians talk to the dead?

    They use a weegie board.

  36. “maybe bitterness and constant conflict creates disease.”

    I think they do. It would help explain the placebo effect, some aspects of which are very weird.

    “The basic principle, rarely violated, is that what conflicts with the requirements of power and privilege does not exist.”

    And thus social causes – of oppression humour, of “mental illness”, of illness generally – are overlooked.

  37. Could be psyche/Soma Clark but I failed to distinguish the object of the joke from the joker. The joker is only one ingredient in the stew of political incorrectness. You need a catalyst and the insulted human receptor chooses to be upset about an insult and thus made a choice..

    The laughter best originates with the supposed target of the insult, leaving the person giving the insult holding an empty bag. Yes it’s terrible the insulter seems to escape justice/ karma, but maybe he hasnt.

  38. Fred

    You seem to be conflating personal insult and banter with institutional racism.

    Sure it’s not very nice if someone insults another because of their skin colour or religion or whatever. However, when the state is driving discrimination against your kind it is another matter altogether. It’s when politicians and the press dehumanise you. When jokes calling you stupid are mainstream tv. When strangers abuse you in the street. Jobs are hard to get. As is housing. You are more likely to be beaten and fixd up by the cops. You are iller and die younger.

    Your mates calling you FEB is in no way equivalent to the British state driven racism against the Irish.

  39. Organisations, especially big ones such as states, encourage or discourage innate tendencies within their subject individuals – but different organisations amplify or suppress some innate tendencies more than others. Of course colonial empires, such as Britain, normalise oppression humour against the members of its subject colonies. And that emanated from Westminster, London, England. So it’s encouraging that racist ‘jokes’ are become disapproved of earlier in London than elsewhere.

    But the innate tendency in the individuals isn’t against blacks or Jews or Irish people. It’s just competition from the id. Its direction against oppressed groups is a function of the system; self-organisation of egos defining what will be considered acceptable. That organisational process makes the effects more easily recognised by illuminating the targets, but simultaneously obscures that its fundamental source is the id.

  40. Fred

    I had no Idea what FEB meant till JOML pointed it out..

    I can Only Imagine you are on very Close terms with those saying that.. Though it still sits unwell with me.

  41. Brian

    It is disheartening that Fred being called FEB sits unwell with you yet you still seem to stand by your right to crack jokes about the stupid Irish. FEB is just a personal racist insult. Whereas Irish jokes are part of a brutal British state driven assault on the Irish. The first is trivial compared to the latter.

    Any chance you could not just abandon the conversation and let us know what you think now. Is it that:

    1) you haven’t actually read the context and history of Irish jokes outlined above?
    2) you dismiss the arguments and intend to carry on cracking Irish jokes?
    3) you accept the argument but are just refusing to acknowledge that because I am a gobshite FEB dick?
    4) something else?

  42. Clark
    “So it’s encouraging that racist ‘jokes’ are become disapproved of earlier in London than elsewhere.”

    This specific battle against racist humour has been fought and won before, in our lifetime. You remember the likes of Bernard Manning, Jim Davidson et al were always on the tele.

    Understanding the role of culture in reproducing the attitudes of the ruling class is not new. It can be traced back ~150 years to the beginning of modern sociology. Sociology is denigrated because power does not want people actually studying how society works. The attack continues, such as in the form of the “cultural marxism” trope.

  43. Brian

    Ignore my previous comment mate. I do not mean to demand a response like that. Although I do genuinely hope my comments have given you pause to think about cracking anti-Irish jokes. Peace, love to you.

  44. I remember Dave Allen being on the TV Phil, making fun of the church, even very religious people thought he was funny.

  45. You had a television? Sheer luxury. We’d have cut us right legs off to have a television. Twer fifteen of us lived in a cardboard box in t’middle of t’road, had to get up at three o’clock in t’morning, four hours before we went to bed, lick t’road clean with our tongues then work twenty six hours in t’mill.

  46. Yes Dave Allen was great on our luxury tv. Didn’t the church keep him off the tele in Ireland tho. Or was that just an urban myth thing?

  47. Phil, please tell me about the “cultural Marxism” trope.

    I am concerned about some of the uses political correctness is sometimes put to. The trouble as I see it is that one thing can be used as cover for something else, like you get anti-Semites mingling with pro-Palestinians, and thus the former cause pollutes the latter by a process that resembles diffusion. Or, used as a technique, defending Assange can be derided as ‘misogyny’.

    This can be damaging to political causes, but on a personal level abuse of feminist ideology has seriously damaged my life.

  48. Well I’m probably not the person to ask what cultural marxism is because I don’t really know exactly. I think it’s weird ahistorical nonsense that is hard to pin down and collapses under criticism, mostly spouted by aggrieved blokes who saw it on you tube. Someone who believes it will be better placed to explain it. But from my understanding:

    The theory of cultural marxism says that having lost the show down with capitalism, socialism abandoned the fight over economics and politics, and inspired by the Frankfurt philosophers, socialism then decided to take over culture instead. Now culture -TV, press, theatre, universities etc – is dominated by closet commies and feminists. Thus communist disctatorship will prevail through political correctness, indoctrination and by taking away from men the right of free speech.

  49. Hypersensitivity to real or imagined insult and the Cultural Bullies who encourage others to be more sensitive has a chilling effect on speech, similar to the persecution of whistleblowers whose outcry gores their oxen.

    Just SHADDUP is the message if you should contemplate breaching the new protocols. Better not say anything if it’s likely to be distorted or misconscrewed. Free speech isn’t free of charge anymore.

  50. This new set of protocols can be laid at the feet of Progressives or Liberals if you will: the touchy-feely wing of the Left.

    I think some of them mean well but their bargain basement Socialism is verklempt.

  51. Recent high profile exponents of the cultural marxism theory include Jordan Petersen and Suella Baverman MP. I have mentioned it because of the recent jokes here, the mentions of political correctness and stuff Ben has been saying. Ben is speaking the language of cultural marxism theory but I actually have no idea what he thinks about it. Funny enough, the refusal to be pinned down, the lack of specificity and clarity, is a tactic of those who defend the ideas around the theory if not the theory itself. I do not know if Ben knows that or if he is just being generally zenned out Ben. 🙂

  52. Phil: cultural Marxism is not my subject but it seems Progressives fit the definition.

    Sometimes I get carried away with meter and wordplay so I know it sometimes needs further explanation. When that happens just say
    ‘Verbose minutiae’ I’ll get the point and state the premise in simple sentences. I do my best to use language for precision..not to show off. Actually I write because I must.

  53. Well actually Ben’s last two comments are unambiguously flirting with the ideas around cultural marxism theory. The use of words like “protocol” and German words betray the extreme right wing conspiracy thinking behind the aggrieved pleas for free speech. It gets really odd and really ugly very quickly.

    So Ben, want to talk about it?

    EDITED to say cross posted

  54. “betray the extreme right wing conspiracy thinking behind the aggrieved pleas for free speech.”

    So Free Speech is not a concern for the Left?

    Please expand on that prescient thought. 🙂

    Take plenty of time. Out for errands.

  55. Whew! That was a close one

    Learn to pronounce
    Origin Latin

    And yes be clear and concise…THAT’S exactly the bullshit I’m talking about.

    Back later

  56. Phil, there’s an extensive Wikipedia section, describing it as the “cultural Marxism conspiracy theory”:

    Like essentially all conspiracy theories, it’s a vast leafy canopy originally sprouted from some seeds of truth, a leap to the opposing pole.

    Ben’s description resonates with me. Yes, it is the communication enforcement regime of those who believe themselves to be progressive; voicing certain concepts are likely to be punished by denigration or ostracism. “The touchy-feely wing of the Left” – yes, their frequent physical contacts are their bonding ritual, their guarantee of mutual adherence to their consensus, because the implicit danger in such touching without explicit consent is that speaking beyond the unspoken PC consensus risks retroactive sexual harassment charges.

    I feel I have no place to stand. I don’t belong on the right, and the left is not safe for white heterosexual men. I sure don’t belong with the hippies and their equivalence of fact with opinion. I’m certainly not the only one to feel this way; witness the election of Trump, and the move to the right throughout the US and Europe.

  57. Ben

    I guess you do not know what you are saying was born in the Nazi idea of “cultural bolshevism” and when exponents of the theory say “marxist” what they really mean is Jews. I guess you just do not understand you are absorbing ideas that come from and align with fascist propaganda.

    I do not speak for the left so cannot say if free speech matters to it. However, I can say that often the claims by the right to having free speech denied by “progressives” are, when looked at specifically, just not true.

    Take the example of the jokes on this thread which seems to have triggered your grievance. No one stopped anyone telling whatever joke they liked. The idea of Irish jokes was challenged. That’s all. You lost the argument. More accurately you failed to even put up an argument. You even failed to come through with the threatened stream of un PC jokes when invited. No one stopped you. No one censored you.

  58. Clark

    Fair enough, that’s what you feel. However, to say “the left is not safe for white heterosexual men” strikes me as ludicrous. Please give me specific real world examples of what you mean.

  59. Well, I was on a protest with this bloke, and there was a private security team to keep the protest out of an area, but every one of them was black and I felt they looked primed for aggression.

    Now I’d encountered something like this before; promoting a production in Huddersfield, the host club had insisted we use their security, but they turned out to be a bunch of crooks, taking tickets and recreational drugs from the incoming audience and reselling them. Talking about it later, our regular security said there was a revolving door between certain private security firms and organised crime. As if to prove the point, the proprietor of the venue got shot in the stomach a few weeks later.

    With this in mind I mentioned to the other bloke on the protest that this security team looked like a gang; he then spent quite a long time haranguing me for being racist.

    It can also be very unpopular to defend Assange; after all, he’s a ‘rapist’.

  60. Way to go Clark. You have just recounted your version of what has been a point of dispute between us. It has absolutely nothing to do with the left being “unsafe” for white heterosexual men whatsoever. I have absolutely no idea where this outburst came from. Just bizarre.

  61. Clark
    “Try arguing that boys should have legal protection against enforced genital surgery”

    I have no idea what this m,eans or how it proves that the left is unsafe for white straight blokes. Nor how it relates to political correctness gone mad.

    Your responses so far seem to prove my point that most complaints about political correctness, censorship of free speech etc when looked at specifically are bizarre and amount to nothing like the authoritarian leftie oppression that was claimed.

  62. I’m sorry you see it as an outburst Phil; I deliberately left it non-personal, though of course I knew you would recognise it. I thought that might help you consider it.

    Sorry, I can’t link it all together for you; that’s in its nature. It isn’t explicitly defined in the first place. It’s an atmosphere, of what can and cannot be said, and by whom. If you can’t feel it, maybe that’s because you’re already conforming to it, which would be rather like what goes on in the various media organisations.

  63. Clark

    We don’t even need to go close to the subsequent row at my place. We need to just look at the events and see how they relate to your assertion that the comment was suppose to elucidate.

    We were on a demo with a group of mostly white men. We shouted at some bouncers who were mostly black men. How the fuck does this show that the left is unsafe for white heterosexual men? It doesn’t. In any way.

    More to the point how did you discern the bouncers were all gay? 😉 That’s a joke btw.

  64. Try as I might I can’t simplify my words to satisfy you Phil.

    Also losing what desire I have for doing so.

  65. Clark

    Happily your reading comprehension is intact.

    I too dont seem to have a home. I used to think I was a Leftist but apparently my words betray a budding Neo Nazi complete with Jack boots for my thuggery language.

  66. I don’t know that the Irish have any sort of reputation for driving at all Ben.

    But if you are ever in a filling station in Belfast whatever you do don’t ask them to blow up your tyres.

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    So if you happen to be a fully qualified train driver seeking a new career in, err, train driving now’s the time to apply. Salary seems good.

    Or you can just join the military division of Amazon and wear a lot of hats.

  68. Is that it? Sigh. As old as the hills and truly rubbish. Ooh Paddy can’t think. Darkies are black. The tellers are English/American and the targets are victims of empire. But sure, that’s a meaningless coincidence.

    It’s not racist! Just a laugh! I can’t really explain it but I feel bullied by feminazis!

    That’s right boys. The future is yours.

  69. Phil, feeling better than everyone else is just a function of id-ego cooperation. Everyone feels that they’re better than everyone else. That’s the problem. No matter how much you want all the fault to rest with the sexists, racists and the ruling classes or whoever, we each carry a piece of the problem in the way we’re constituted, and that includes you and me, and highlighting someone else’s faults does nothing to alleviate one’s own. Christianity calls it “original sin” and for various reasons fails to spell it out. ‘Sin’ is falling short of what would be ideal, and ‘original’ means pertaining to our origin. We fall short of peace, love, honesty and equanimity because we originate from life’s competition.

    Yes, there are structural reasons for racist ‘jokes’. Now please have patience while people’s egos negotiate this new information with their ids.

    And maybe, eventually, you’ll hear my stories, but they are not suitable to post on-line.

  70. Clark

    OK, I take your point. I can get on my high horse. I am going to Ireland for a few days anyway. A break from here too will best all round. Peace, love and bollocks to everyone.

  71. Ben – Bollocks are balls (testicles)…. and I often type and talk bollocks!

    Phil – enjoy your trip and don’t ask for a pint of Black&tan (stout and ale mixed), as you might get a kick in the bollocks!

  72. Ben, Squonk’s the most knowledgable about earthquakes, but here’s my take.

    The plates continually attempt to move relative to each other, but irregularities prevent it – basically friction on a very large scale. So the plates distort elastically, building up energy and pushing harder on the point of stickage until it gives, the plates move suddenly ie. there’s an earthquake, which dissipates the energy.

    So when there have been no earthquakes for a long time, there’s a lot of pent-up energy, and when the stuck point gives there’s likely to be a series of big quakes, and that could well be the situation they’ve found.

    But they’re saying they’re not sure. There was a sequence of big quakes ending a century ago, and it’s been unusually quiet since then. The quiet period could be a result of that sequence dissipating all the energy, or there could be some other reason, and they’d like other researchers to look into it.

  73. Earthquakes are blamed for killing lots of people, but really it’s falling buildings that are the major danger. And the incoming Europeans called the Native Americans ‘primitive’, because they lived in tents.

    And the white men dammed and straightened the rivers, and built flood defences, but when the defences are overwhelmed the white men’s buildings are washed away. River’s rising; strike the tents and move to higher ground. ‘Primitive’.

  74. Maybe political correctness serves a similar function as did Victorian etiquette.

    In both cases there’s a spectrum; it is unpleasant for others if someone eats with their mouth open, or sprays chewed food onto others by attempting to eat and talk simultaneously. It is wrong to reinforce cultural stereotypes – though some “racist jokes” also expose them. But eating with the ‘wrong’ knife or criticising omission of letters from the ever-lengthening LGBTIQGF-whateveritisthisweek seem to reinforce an us-over-them mentality, which is very ironic in the second case.

  75. Ben,

    I think you need to talk to local experts who know the area if you want to know about soil liquefaction risks. It depends on water content, plus many other things.

    On a general point though , feeling vibrations from trains miles away tends to suggest solid ground to conduct the vibrations, but don’t take my word for anything regarding anything as potentially serious as specific earthquake advice – see if you can find some local knowledge.

  76. Thanks Clark, AA.

    That makes sense as to vibration as there is little moisture in our topsoil.

    Dry soil actually repels moisture. Excellent rain this year.

  77. Clark

    You Picked out my Fave Song of All Time..Yes a Fave is Hard..Biko Got me into Gabriel..But me and the Wife ( ex) seen the real world tour live in Glasgow.

    This isn’t Glasgow but is the Real world tour.. I listened to your recorded version again.. Just Beautiful.

    Ben I seen a Space Photo of California in Bloom Yesterday .. Must be amazing from some parts on the Ground.. Hope My Apples are doing well Lol.


    Enjoy the Trip .. Enjoy the Journey..The Food . Banter, and Booze . Have a safe trip.

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