The General Discussion Thread

[Publish Date updated to restore to front page]

Okay as an experiment here it is. Discuss your favourite generals here!

Well perhaps… Really this is simply the place to post news-items, fun-items or whatever takes your fancy. In short just post what you want here.

It’s just another wee experiment – comments welcome.


[Image: General Sir Anthony Cecil Hogmanay Melchett (Stephen Fry)]

16,731 thoughts on “The General Discussion Thread

  1. Ben, I do, but the neighbourhood is so small compared with the plate. Even a toothpick can hurt a rhino, but the chances of hitting a sufficiently sensitive spot are very low.

    I have wondered if extracting massive quantities of oil and gas could significantly decrease subsurface lubrication, and it’s certainly true that extraction can cause earthquakes as the strata above settle.

  2. Silly comparison. Drilling can force a plate to move without damaging it, while no toothpick could cause a rhino to.

  3. I once tried visualising a drilling operation by scaling it down. If I remember rightly, the surface was up near my living-room ceiling, the drilling tower was less than an inch high, and the drill shaft was thinner than a human hair but extended down more than the height of a person.

    It follows from the thinness of the shaft that it cannot be pushed downward from the top because it would attempt to buckle, causing friction against the sides of its bore. It must be just rotated, and bear down under its own weight.

  4. Over a decade ago I was travelling on the London Underground; it was evening and there were only a few people in the same carriage as me. The train pulled into a station and a man got on and stood by the door, looking somehow tense. The train pulled out of the station and accelerated into the tunnel.

    The train entered the next station which at first seemed deserted, but as it decelerated I saw three white men surrounding a black man with his back to a wall. The white man in the middle was attacking the black man, while the two whites that flanked him were at least encouraging the attacker, and maybe participating.

    Then several things happened very quickly. As the train came to a stop I could hear racist abuse from the three whites. As soon as the carriage doors started opening the man who’d boarded at the previous stop squeezed out and then sprinted towards the ongoing attack. The whites left and right scattered, the man from my carriage grabbed the attacker and spun him up against the wall, while with his other hand he pulled out an ID and announced “You’re nicked!”. The passengers on my carriage cheered and applauded.

    Scum coppers, eh Phil?

  5. Clark
    “Scum coppers, eh Phil?”

    I thought you wanted to drop the subject! Look Clark, you just don’t like what I am saying. There’s no need to get all antsy about it. Relax mate.

  6. Phil, I don’t understand what you’ve been saying, and yes, I don’t like the way you’ve been saying it. You seem to have been polarising the issue heavily, and somewhat nonsensically; for instance, here you said that “the cops have been conflating xr with the far right” (though neglecting to clarify who or what you mean by “the cops”, despite my repeated requests for clarification) whereas here and here, you conflated Rupert Read, and by association XR, with the far right – are you agreeing with “the cops”?

    You suggest I might be “afraid of challenging authority”, yet it was you that tried to dissuade me from getting arrested during the April XR actions, while conversely, on the Poor Doors protest the traffic we stopped on Tower Bridge we allowed to proceed again after a very few minutes before even a single police officer arrived.

    So to me your argument looks like a load of strident rhetoric typical of the so-called hard left, “full of sound and fury, signifying nothing”, the sort of thing that “puts the audience off”, which is the last thing you should do if you want to encourage a mass-movement. It’s the lack of rationality and consistency that prompts me to seek psychological explanations.

  7. Trowbridge, I don’t know why I didn’t help that copper; it was a long time ago. Probably fear that more violence might flare up, possibly that I didn’t want to get off the train and maybe get home hours late or even miss the last train through having to give a statement, possibly just that it all happened so quickly.

    But no, I didn’t just make it up.

  8. It seems to me that such analyses as presented by Roger Hallam or Karl Lam are better than those advanced by small, very left-wing groups, the latter seeming too simplistic. Yes, the police indeed enforce laws that protect privilege, but they enforce a load of other laws too, many of which have been won, wrung out of politicians by decades of campaigning, civil protest and civil disobedience.

    In XR we make it clear to people employed as police that it is the toxic system that is our target rather than them personally. We thereby disassociate ourselves in their minds from criminality, we deliberately de-escalate the inevitable conflict as much as we can, prompting all, whether involved or observing, to recognise that the actual source of the conflict lies elsewhere, and to question where that might be.

    Whereas it would be easy to blame aggressive protestors, the XR strategy encourages people to think.

  9. Clark: I find you clear and concise in your consistent thinking.

    You have greater talent than most engineers in expressing your thoughts outside equations and blueprints. I see few flaws except perhaps you are s bit conservative in accepting theorems outside traditional science.

  10. ‘The whites left and right scattered, the man from my carriage grabbed the attacker and spun him up against the wall, while with his other hand he pulled out an ID and announced “You’re nicked!”. ‘

    I expect they charged him with impersonating a police officer.

  11. Clark
    “Phil, I don’t understand what you’ve been saying”

    Yeah, you seem to be reading quite a bit into it. Again, here’s what I’m saying.

    Viewing the police as allies:
    1) denies the everyday lived experience of, and excludes, those on the blunt end of police oppression
    2) misleads new activists about the reality of the consequences of their actions
    3) fails to illuminate the role of the cops as protector of privilege

    That’s it. You may not like it nor agree but I think it’s pretty clear.


    M 7.1 SoCal earthquake triggers aftershocks up to 100 mi away: What’s next?

    In a chicken-or-egg conundrum, it’s never been clear whether this region is the site of continuing off-fault aftershocks of the 1872 M~7.6 Owens Valley earthquake, or whether, because the crust is heated, weak, and shocks are abundant, all of the local stress is continuously being released. If that were the case, then the 1872 shock may have been arrested just to the north because it ran out of stress (Stein, 2016).

    Now, the Ridgecrest M 7.1 has delivered the answer: There was plenty of accumulated stress, enough to permit a quake with 3 m (10 ft) of slip. That suggests that one can, indeed, have aftershocks 150 years after very large mainshocks, an argument we advanced in Toda and Stein (2018). This was inspired by the work of John Adams (Natural Resources Canada), John Ebel (Boston College) and Seth Stein (Northwestern University).

    …The biggest loser is a 30-km stretch of the Garlock Fault just south of the action that was hit by a Coulomb stress increase in excess of 2 bars. Remarkably, this section has not lit up in aftershocks. Could this stretch of the Garlock be waiting to go all in one big event?… An end-to-end rupture on the Garlock, if (still) possible, would be in the magnitude 7.6-7.8 range.

    Parting shot

    After a M 4.0 was followed 30 min later by a M 6.4, and the M 6.4 was followed 34 hr later by a M 7.1, we should all ask ourselves if we are ready for whatever this earthquake sequence—or the next one—may bring. That means putting a whistle on your keychain. It means having an earthquake emergency kit in your home, car, and place of work ( It means having a communication plan, and a solar charger and cell phone battery in your kit. It means making sure your home and its contents are as seismically resilient as possible, and asking whether you could deal with the repair cost and dislocation if it is not. Empower yourself in the face of a trembling earth.

  13. Phil, show me the XR material that claims the police are allies. Show me the denial you claim.

    On the April actions, I heard XR speakers and coordinators repeatedly warn those listening (site meetings, group meetings etc.) to not even speak to police; that even if police seemed friendly, their objective would probably be surveillance. Many XR participants went straight ahead and were friendly towards police anyway. I did myself, and when I did so, I was careful to explain why I was taking action, and reveal no information about other protestors.

    It is the “radical analysis” you claim to share that “denies the reality” of the contradiction for a black man who is rescued from a racist attack, though he is also stopped and searched on a weekly basis.

    But more importantly it fails to discriminate between police as exploited employees in the toxic system, and police as a structure of power. It thereby makes enemies of individuals employed as police, making them into a buffer between direct action and power. It is obstructing you from your real target!

    A little lubrication can often save a lot of force. Please deliver this oilcan to your leaders, Phil. Time is too short to waste on pointless fights with the police.

  14. Ben, I really appreciate that compliment. In this world of increasing specialisation I have tried to be a bridge, carrying understanding between the ever more isolated islands that specialisation unavoidably produces. It is most rewarding for my effort to be recognised; thank you.

  15. Clark
    “making them into a buffer between direct action and power. It is obstructing you from your real target!”

    LOL. I am not “making them” into anything.

    You think that violence with the police is a choice. You hold this pov against the fact of all the violence in the history of social and labour movements. From climate camp to the suffragettes, the miners to Toxteth, and a gazzillion other examples. They all chose violence. If only they had been nicer!

    But history means nothing to you because someone says an academic has proven that non-violence is the only way (even though they don’t say that). Well OK then, you carry on. These beliefs you hold will crash rudely into reality at some point when the police are battering you, or you find yourself unable to go to some festival because of police bail conditions, or you find some crackpot magistrate in an emergency 3am sitting handing down 15 months because you touched a copper who was lamping the person next to you.

    Yes, I did suggest you didn’t put yourself up for arrest. I was trying to help but even this gets thrown back in my face publicly as some form of weird accusation. Your naivity and downright ignorance about the police exemplifies how xr fails to prepare people. I still maintain you carry on not putting yourself up as an “arrestable” but that’s the last time I shall mention it. You’re a grown man. You go for it if you must.

  16. For the sake of accuracy let me correct a minor point in my last comment. A magistrate can only sentence up to 12 months.

  17. “You think that violence with the police is a choice.”

    No I don’t, and please ask me what I think rather than telling me.

    Before further conversation between us can be meaningful, you need to show me that you can differentiate, in mind and in language, between people, individuals, employed to be police, and the police as a power structure.

  18. And now my time for conversation has expired again. I am sorry that so little progress has been made this session. Shortly after I’d posted my 7:47 am comment I realised that I could have better phrased the following:

    “making them into a buffer between direct action and power”

    Maybe something along the lines of “encouraging [or possibly inciting] them to act as a buffer…” etc.

    There is also the matter of uninvolved observers, and which ‘side’ they are more likely to take.

  19. Do you know the cost of the US women winning the world cup? It showed that the whole country has become a collection of political morons by converting its education system into a sports training ground.

  20. Clark,

    It’s time to drop this conversation, it’s going nowhere. Have a blast at dtrh.

  21. Just to emphasise again for Ben, the main take-away from the linked temblor article above is that there is a risk that the Garlock fault may produce a quake in the 7.6-7.8 range as a result of added stress from the current quakes. Whether that happens today, next year, 100 years from now or more is not known, but it does appear the risk has increased.

  22. Can anyone believe how stubbornly naive CM has been about the leaking of Sir Kim Darroch’s memos has been!

  23. Garlock is but 50 miles from my location and I believe circumvents San Andreas just north of Wrightwood and NE of me.

    Like they say..hurry up and wait.

  24. I’m no great shakes on much of any science and I get confused about directionals like SSW or Northeast.

    When wind is forecasted as 24 mph SSE gusts, as I understand it the ORIGIN is SSE which means the direction from which it comes.

    Geologically though, it’s a muddle.

  25. Phil, thanks for your kind wishes.

    I answered the points you raised. The conversation could have proceeded if you had answered mine rather than just restating what you’d already said.

    I think you exaggerated about Rupert Read. What he said is true – that a significant proportion of voters have argued that EU membership suppresses wages in established EU member states while draining the skilled population from new member states. Pointing this out does not constitute bigotry, and I have seen no evidence that he is racist.

    Have you ever been friends with a cop? Could you be?

  26. While i don’t want to sound like a know-it-all, I do want to mention why I have such an active brain. Like I do agree about eating the right food, like certain fats help, and avoiding unnecessary drugs are important, I think that forcing it to work is more so. And there is the importance of the right exercise.

    Make you brain, especially recalling things, is more so. Force it to remember items rather than immediate going to sources, particularly the internet. Just be patient and it will come back.

    Just the other day I got involved in a conversation with a young man from Cleveland, and we were soon talking about life there, and it was just amazing how much I remembered, though it took days, and I never went to the internet, especially its Presidents and where they lived.

    And in doing exercise, make your brain works too rather than just thinking about how much there is left to do, like playing with a pet while rolling around on the floor.

    More soon if I just recall.


    We see that the the 7.1 quake likely brought faults in the Coso Volcanic Field closer to failure, consistent with the abundant aftershocks there. But although the quake also strongly increased the Coulomb stress on a 30-km (20-mile) stretch of the Garlock, most of the aftershocks along the Garlock have in fact appeared in a blue zone to the southwest. Satellite radar imagery spanning several years before these quakes suggests the Garlock may be slowly creeping in the blue zone [Tong et al., 2013], which if real could play into seismicity there, but that signal is within the noise level of the dataset. Satellite radar imagery and other geodetic (surface deformation) data and field observations will help piece together what has been going on, not only near the Garlock but everywhere in and around the Ridgecrest sequence.

  28. Craig and his mods are deleting all posts which show that he like Nigel Farage is involved in the plot which got rid of Sir Kim Darroch.

  29. You could always show it here, Trow – but what you call “proof” is undoubtedly more commonly referred to as “a wild and completely unsubstantiated accusation”.


    @Phil: I don’t like the police much either. Read up on the Clydach murders sometime:

    It’s pretty clear that not only do the police look after each other above all else, they’re not above orchestrating the blatant cover-up of murderers – including those of children – among their own ranks, while they fit up someone to take the rap for it.

    When they take a break from menacing innocent motorcyclists and fitting them up for the sport of it, that’s how they carry on down my way.

  30. At least my posts which made the connection, though Komodo thought his post had also made the connection and he claimed it had even been deleted, only admitting later that he had made a mistaje.

  31. I am taking about a connection, gleen-NI, which appeared at the end of a Daily Mail one. You can find it for yourself. Still think those fires started in London and Paris were just technical faults?

    You just make mindless excuses.

  32. Sorry about the typo regarding talking. Just noticed my last name was misspelled too. It’s Ford. not Fprd.

    Interested in Gleen’s explanation of the Chinook helicopter crash into the Mull’s Hill of Stone in June 1994? Bet he think it wa s some technical error rather than deliberate hardline sabotage.

  33. These Earth Quake things are Way more common in recent years

    Even in the Digital age, where we Hear of events more easily

    I have read that Crop fail is bad in Ben’s CAL..also world wide as we go into a slolar minimum ..To Add to our human madness.

  34. Now Craig has deleted my post about Assange should be worried about Boris Johnson becoming PM. Should be easy to fit up Pamela Anderson. a visitor of his in prison, with hacker in Russia Edward Snowden.

  35. “It’s Ford. not Fprd.”

    Surprised you didn’t blame GCHQ for that, like you usually do.

    What’s the latest topic, Trow, Assange? No? That’s probably why your post was deleted. Try being a bit more on-topic, it really helps at Craig’s these days by the seem of it.

    To answer your questions – I don’t really have particularly strong views on that Chinook helicopter crash, I’m afraid. You do, perchance…?

    I was hoping to hear your proof about Farage and the US diplomat too. I’ve no idea whether the fires were deliberate or not (which London one, btw – 1666? Bit before my time I’m afraid!) – obviously I lack your sources.

  36. The post about Assange should be worried about barbarian Boris becoming PM followed one by RoS about his winning the vote. It was posted by the mods, only to have it taken down by that piece of excrement CM.

    I have strong views about the crash because it was filled with intelligence, military, and police people who were willing to settle The Troubles on generous terms for the disidents, and they were killed by hardliners using a handheld landing device which flew it straight into the Hill of Stone.

    Finian Cunningham had a similar article but he wrongly had hardliners killed.

    I have no proof of anything, and have never claimed so. Only courts or similar bodies do.

    Now you are making Sir Kim an American?

    I was talking about that fire in a tower block a few years ago in London. Not the Great Fire.

    Just more grabbing for straws.

  37. Sorry, I should have said British ambassador to the US. Clumsy of me.

    The Grenfell fire – of course, I wasn’t in the country at the time. Terrible event. Surely it was more to do with prettying up the place with disregard to safety that was to blame? Although it seems damned obvious even to me as a non-chemist, that polyethylene is highly combustible, and aluminium will burn when exposed to flame. To clad a building in it is astonishing.

    You do appear to be a bit harsh on CM, that’s a most unfair description of him there.

  38. CM tried to set me up to go along with his hatred of Hillary after I went out of my way to help get him here when the country was anxious about who killed Seth Rich and how Wikileaks got those emails that Trump was clamoring for.

    Of course, I have no love for the Clintons after they tried to see me murdered both in Portugal when Elizabeth Frawley Bagley was the US Ambassador there, and in Sweden when Leon Panetta’s first order of business in 2009 as DCI was to have a hit squad hunt me down. only to have Sapo tell the murderers to leave the country.

    Still I don’t think that the Clintons are capable or desirous of killing loyal staffer Rich, or that CM was able to get those hacked emails to Wikileaks. CM lied about it all, and never got me to join the band wagon against the Clintons . I told him so in emails, and will tell him to his face.

    He is trying to set up Assange now.

  39. Goodness Me Trow

    I am an Eye witness to the effort Craig has put in to the wikileaks legal fight..Craig Looked so Shatterd on Bute..But he Showed up

    I gave Craig a bottle of Whksy for his troubles

    The Torture of Julian Horrify’s me

  40. Hello Brian and Glenn; good to see you both.

    The wise old owl sat on the oak,
    The more he heard the less he spoke.
    The less he spoke the more he heard,
    Wasn’t he a wise old bird?

  41. There used to be a lot of banter between the commenters at Craig’s; I think I helped start it. It was, mostly, a friendly atmosphere, and lots of fun at times. It was a standing joke that threads strayed off-topic after a few dozen comments. Surprisingly often, such digressions would somehow become relevant to the topic again, as if to demonstrate the fundamental interconnectedness of all things.

    But Craig’s site has become a lot more popular since then, and enforcing the on-topic rule has become a necessity. The forums were provided but, it seems, not enough people are prepared to stray from the limelight of the most recent thread.

  42. Hi Clark, this old owl hears mostly crap.

    And Brian, people change for all kinds of reasons.

  43. I wouldn’t be a copper. I think I was the only boy ever in my school to turn down being a prefect. Some of them were crap too; they took advantage of their position.

  44. Though I suppose I have been a sort of copper when I was moderating at Craig’s, though mostly I was a janitor, clearing spam.

    The commenters who started slanging matches and those who ranted on about biased moderation are definitely the ones I was most tempted to delete. Trying to keep the peace is shit because you get shot at from all sides.

  45. OK, I’m about to set off, but I’m going to the south coast first on a festival errand, and I’m stopping off in Yorkshire on the way, so I won’t be on-site for a day or three.

    Try to behave while I’m gone! xx

  46. I have observed Rupert among his peers after a philosophy conference. Anybody interested can ask me about it at DTRH.
    I was also partial to his decision to agree to a BBC ban of Craig during the 2009 campaign in Norwich North. Despite both Rupert and Craig being members of UCLU, the debate being on education, he agreed to Craigs exclusion.

    Therefore I conclude that he is not a socialist or a unionist.

  47. Can anything be more uncalled for when governments don’t do their jobs, like the D-Notice system and the Press Complaints Commission not being enough to stop the reporting of alleged cases of official misconduct like leaking government info when actual documents and reliable sources were required in the Darroch case . for New Zealand to pay 3,000 dollars of its own money to buy back 68 weapons because Brenton Tarrant, an Australian, entered the country with his own guns and shot up the place, killing many hated Muslims , or Las Vegas authorities wondering why Stephen Paddock killed 51 unknown people at a public outdoor gathering when they allowed OJ Simpson parole and permission to live there earlier on the day of the shooting?

  48. Can you believe that novelist Iris Murdoch is still alive, celebrating her century of life, though all the accolades I have read make no mention of her love affair with political theorist Michael Oakeshott!

    Think it plagued their ideas, was the source of their popularity, and the cause of their longevity1

  49. The breadth of your life experiences is awesome Trow.

    The force of the flywheel pushes us forward, hopefully.

  50. Thanks Ben, it’s guys like you, most of my relatives, and some others have made it so.

    Hope you are still planning on your animal project, and don’t my offer. Better to have some of my money doing some good rather than the damned US government which one of my well meaning relatives invested in when I was under the weather. Think that the profligate officials can borrow money at 1.7%!

  51. Was hoping to hear more about Wittgenstein. Think that he tried to do too much., like Rupert. All I really know about him is that he was Jewish, went to school with Hitler, was captured by the Italians after WWI, and Bertrand Russell never said a word about him in his history of Western philosophy, Guess Ludvig was too much into the end of Western civilization.

  52. Ben
    ” The force of the flywheel pushes us forward,”

    It rings Bell.. Have you seen Grave of the Fire Flies..Touching tear stuff

    I really wonder if First we need to go back… I dunno.

    Clark Drive safe..see ya soon

    Trow ..I must Agree. When I was Poor..Still Am.. I thought I was the Richest man in the world.. In Love .

  53. Oh, jesus, we are to get another islamaphobe to lead us. though, this time one with an Oxford degree, Bailiol College no less.

    Boris Johnson leaned little there about the rise of Islam, its inter faith feuds, its struggle with other religions, the kingdoms off Cordoba, Granada and other places, the rise of Western imperialism and its expansion, the enslavement and expulsions of Muslims, and their remnants even joining Franco at the bitter end on the way to our so called democracy.

    When will we be spared from the barbarians!

  54. The success of the Apollo 11 mission ended the chances of America solving the world’s prioblems by a band aide approach: beating the Soviets to the Moon. getting rid of more progressive leadership at home by assassination. converting the third world into an assembly of obedient subordinents, having to control everything possible, etc.

  55. See that the Darroch leaks have apparently gone off the radar but not a dirty deal to link Edward Snowden in the process.

    Snowden’s hacks linked the US Navy to the sinking pf the the submarine Kursk which had caught Putin by surprise, forcing him to rely upon Norway, Britain and the US to explain it. They, of course, completely tried to cover it up, saying it was just a Russian Northern Fleet accident when Snowden’s documents showed it had been torpedoed by a US sub, thinking that a US companion had been torpedo by the Kursk while it was emerging from its harbor.

    Now the culprits are trying to keep it covered up. having Norwegian pensioner Frode Berg deliver apparently new false information to the Russians, having him give them envelops with false claims about who and why it was done.

    Would be easy for the British spooks to change their minds about who was responsible for Darroch’s hacks.

  56. Berg’s set-up was the other way round with him getting a 14-year sentence with moderate labor for seeking Russian intelligence about its submarines.

    Was he looking for info for Western intelligence that Snowden had told the truth about what happened to the Kursk?

  57. Craig Murray has deleted my post claiming that Boris Johnson leaked Darroch’s posts which will partly be blamed on Edward Snowden if Alex Younger’s MI6 goes along.

  58. Trowbridge: “The success of the Apollo 11 mission ended the chances of America solving the world’s prioblems by a band aide approach: beating the Soviets to the Moon.”

    You don’t really swallow that line about the Yanks actually having people on the moon, do you Trow? Thought you knew better than to fall for these elaborate hoaxes! The Dutch government called them out on it at the time.

  59. Just your usual grabbing for straws, Glenn_NI whether it be a piece of petrified wood, a stone or a rock. Apollo 11 certainly went to the Moon in a great international gamble which you say too little about.

    Can’t waste more time on you.

  60. Well, I never took you as being so gullible, Trow. Next you’ll be telling me the Twin Towers just fell down by themselves, and that you favour the “lone gunman” theory in the JFK assassination.

  61. I know, unlike Jim Fetzer. that the WTC was brought down by the two planes flying from Boston to LA, and Richard Cain and Chuckie Nicoletti, not LHO who had been set up as a communist assassin, assassinated JFK, starting American decline, as Oswald Spengler would say.

  62. So why do you think your mate Earl Warren’s commission solely blamed LHO – you think he was set up from the start? Was Jacob Ruby in on it, do you reckon? Was Ruby himself murdered, or was that just a coincidence?

  63. LHO was set up in July 1963, first as a Manchurian Candidate but it didn’t take because he would not shoot JFK, then as a communist killer to blame on the Soviets which was ruined by shooting Texas Governor Connally who managed to survive, and vowed to get the co-conspiritors who had apparently doubled crossed him.

    Read John Marks’ The Search for the Manchurian Candidate in the text and notes about the drugged double agent they tried to rapidly hypnotize unsuccessfully to the job. I would cite the pages if one of my nieces had not borrowed it.

    LBJ got Warren to do the job that Moscow and Havana were not involved for it which could have caused a serious war. Poor LHO was just expendable.

  64. Of course, Ruby was in on it. He arranged for Giancana’s henchmen Cain and Nicolette to do job at the request of CIA head of the execution department William King Harvey, and Rudy, Cain, Nicolle and Giancana were all murdered to keep the lid on this can of worms.

  65. Glenn is not only a dog-hater but a disingenuous debater, full of mock sarcasm and ill will.

    Not sure what you think you accomplish with your sodden soul searching. It ain’t working ..

  66. Despite Pompeo’s claim that China’s treatment of the Uighurs is the human rights crime of the century, I thought that America had already won the cup with the quake it caused off Aceh in 2003 which killed about 250,000 people around the Indian Ocean basin, and the one in China’s Sichuan province itself in May 2008 which wrecked its Science City which murdered around 80.000 persons connected to its scientific elite.

    Nobody beats the Yanks when it comes to human rights abuses!

  67. Trow: The remark Connally is said to have made, “They’re going to kill us all”, was a bit odd. It did suggest he knew someone was supposed to be killed. Kind of risky, though, arranging a hit on the person sitting with you in a moving car.

    But thanks for the rest of that info. Makes you wonder why anyone would be in an operation like that, if there is such a track record of bumping off everyone involved afterwards.

    About the Notre Dame fire, you might like this:

  68. Neither Mrs. Kennedy nor Mrs. Connally who were in the limo were hit. And the good Governor only blurted out his surprise when he belatedly realized he had been shot too.

    For the oversight of not taking the rifle out of the package that had been ordered in an Oswald alias. and test fired to make sure it fired straight. Cain paid with his live when an assassin entered Rose’s restaurant in Chicago when Watergate was heating up, looking for a man with a package,and when he encountered Cain, he blew his head off with a shotgun. The setup Oswald rifle fired high and to the right, hitting Connally.

  69. Since neither of the women were hit, are you saying Connally was shot deliberately? Why didn’t they succeed in killing him, or go after him later?

    Cain was apparently well mobbed up, and had also crossed some mafia people by working for the FBI, and skimming money from Latin American casinos. Might this not have something to do with his murder? He was apparently having a violent row with some mobster just before his death. What makes you sure it was JFK connected?

    Anyway, one question I have is why would anyone work with these people, when there’s every likelihood you’ll be wiped out regardless of which side you’re on, in a operation to tidy up loose ends.

  70. See that Brendt Christensen received life in prison for kidnapping, raping, and beheading poor Chinese exchange student Yingying Zhang but he won’t say where her remains are which prosecutors discount while it could be that he doesn’t known where an accomplice took, tortured and killed her.

    Remember he was only caught because there was a video of him picking her up. Without it, the state of Illinois would still be looking for her, and wondering what happened to her.

    Did America’s secret state treat her as a dangerous spy who was acting as a normal student when she was really spying for Beijing? If Christensen told where her body might be, Washington could be in deep shit!

  71. Must say that I am increasing doubting Washington, being involved in the Yingying Zhack killing, and seeing it more as East meets West, but since no one seems interested, I won’t waste your time and mine by explaining so.

  72. Wife and I went to my cousins bday party (70) over week end .

    Our Irish roots were discussed in light of genealogy showing we were 47% Ashkenazi Jew and my cousins Jazz band (good as Steely Dan) rocked the Rossmoor Party.

    We continue to reconnect from a childhood where we spent every Summer together fishing the Yuba and Trinity Rivers for native Browns and planted Rainbow Trout.

    Its invigorating..

  73. Looks like the Loshark submarine disaster is a repeat by the US Navy like the Kursk one. The American navy is good at keeping its Russian opponent down when it just plays its expected role rather than the Russian one like it did against the Swedish one back in 1982 with disastrous results.

    The Kursk was a giant. double hull vessel built to withstand great pressure. Its only problem was that if the outer hull was pierced by a torpedo. the whole sub perished, and that’s what the USS Toledo arranged when the USS Memphis collided with the Kursk.

    The Loshark was built to prevent this by having an outer depressurized hull with pressurized compartments on the inside with various powered tools to find targets. The problem was keeping their batteries cool.

    The Russians didn’t figure that the Yanks would do so from the outside, resulting in a terrible explosion killing all the officers in the compartment, and nearly sinking the submersible in the Barents.

  74. Can anything beat beating a dead horse than pontificating about Robert Mullet testifying for hours beforehand on the media when he has already concluded that a conspiracy is necessary to prove that collusion occurred. and that a sitting President cannot be prosecuted for impeding justice while still in office!

  75. Sorry Squonkland.. I have been Quite here and at Next Door

    We had a Wondrous Festival.. Myself and Daughter came across .. Clark who was so happy ..that the festival sold out.. Well done guys..No wonder with a line up like that

    Had Friday And Saturday Chats with Nevermind Too

    some Video I shot _

    The Damed –

    Skerryvore –

    Sister Sledge –

  76. Brian and Nevermind, good to see you Doune the Rabbit Hole. Yes, we sold out, first time ever, full capacity of 6000. Unfortunately we had rain on the Friday and the Sunday, but the site held up well and it was never cold.

    Brian, sorry; I left the site and headed to Scarborough on Tuesday, so our trip to Loch Lomond will have to wait. I might be back in a month or two, but that depends upon the timings of other events.

  77. There are some seriously high temperatures about; I saw 39 centigrade forecast for London tomorrow, and parts of Europe have hit 46C.

    Most worrying is that multiple temperature records are getting broken year after year. If this continues, exceeding predictions as the loss of arctic ice has, we’re in for a really tough time. The greenhouse gases already in the atmosphere will continue to gather more heat at the surface for decades yet, each summer hotter than the preceding one; it’s like some eiderdown that you can’t take off.

    As much as it pains me to say so, we may have to resort to stratospheric sulphate injection, ie. ‘chemtrailing’ may have to be implemented for real – though it isn’t really done with aircraft because they don’t fly high enough. I find the prospect of such global experimentation terrifying, but just letting the temperature increase year on year is not an option. It’s 36 centigrade at a friend’s workplace today; we’re rapidly approaching lethal temperatures.

  78. Still don’t understand Craig Murray volunteering an alibi for Boris Johnson not being the leaker in the Darroch Affair, and refusing to allow discussion of it on a most damning thread about the new PM.

  79. Ahh Kool Clark

    And well done again with the sell out

    Yes if you are back keep me posted…I thought you’d be here a while..
    Cheers for the warm hug..that’s what DOUNE is about.

  80. You know there are 2,000+ Americans on death row, so the executions won’t become difficult for many years while they just go on with the other massacres.

    Some country! I hope to leave, and give up my citizenship before I die.

  81. It was damned hot in Holland yesterday, about 105 degrees. All this week, just walking around seems in the shade way too hot. In the sun one feels a growing sense of distress – like you _have_ to get out of it, and into the shade.

    On Monday we did our HIT (High Intensity Training) workout outside on the grass field. That left me and several others feeling pretty woozy, so for the rest of the week we stuck to the gym.

    Wearing long trousers is not an option, even though shorts are not strictly approved. Some of the legal staff still have to wear full length shirts with a tie – utterly ridiculous.

    It’s calmed down to around 99 degrees today. I thought it was hot last year, when it felt like you were moving into an air heater while cycling. While cycling fast, it’s not so bad. As soon as you stop, the heat kind of catches up with you, and you break into a prickly sweat.

    It’s definitely a lot warmer every year. Absolutely beats me how denialists can claim “nothing to see here – it’s hot in summer, don’t you know?”

  82. Denial has a double-hit effect. At first, people deny for a host of reasons – political position, distrust of science or ‘mainstream’ narratives, or just that the changes were slow and small at first compared with human lifespan and the normal variation of weather – but after the changes start becoming obvious, some will continue to deny just because they can’t admit to having been wrong for so many years.

  83. It seems some people just like to be contrarians anyway, or think it’s intellectually cute to have a position that puts them above the masses who are concerned about a problem that doesn’t really exist.

    You notice how the ground is always shifting, they have a number of fallback positions to delay having to admit there’s any problem, or if there is, it’s nothing to do with us. Doesn’t stop them falling right back to the start (“There’s no problem – it’s all a hoax!”) the very next time a discussion takes place, though – they forget they conceded anything the last time around.


    Has anyone noticed the huge drop-off in insects? Or the fact that the skies are pretty much clear of birds? Out on the motorbike, one usually gets many thousands of insect strikes. It’s hard to see out sometimes. Last good blast I went out on, maybe a couple of tiny ones. My jacket, visor and bike itself got almost no strikes at all.

    Isn’t this just a bit of a cause for concern?

  84. I’ve noticed the things you mention glenn, and I’m certainly very concerned about them. Extinction Rebellion will be back in London soon, and there will be a lot more of us than in April. These deniers only respond to one language; pink boats right up their central gyratory systems!

  85. I remember motorcycling the Avon Valley in the late ’80s; my bright yellow leather jacket was no longer recognisably yellow due to all the insect strikes. In the mid ’90s I was driving for NYJO, and I would clean the van windscreen at every fuel stop, to restore visibility. These days a car drive to Scotland results in about two moth strikes on the windscreen.

  86. Yes, it was 37 here yesterday. I can’t believe you carry on working out in this weather Glenn. I’m pretty sure as a cyclist I swallow less flies than I used to.

    Come on, tell us more dtrh stories. Who was there – did you go Squonk? Anyone end up rapping on stage with an mc?

  87. The Damned did a good set, very strong playing. The Hawkwind gig was OK, nothing special, but it was just a four-piece, not the Hawkwind ‘family’ like you used to get at Stonehenge at Solstice. My favourite set was from Murder Capital, whoever they are – hot as fuck; the music was playing them.

    But my favourite venue was Douniversity. I attended three lectures, about sixty people at each. One about the Green New deal; what’s good about it, but how it doesn’t go nearly far enough, especially regarding decommercialisation. One by the Editor-in-chief of Wikileaks which I would have found very informative if I hadn’t already read Craig’s posts on that subject. But the best one was by Natalia, the festival volunteer who first painted my face at Duncarron in 2012, about our images of Vikings analysed through the lens of queer theory.

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