The General Discussion Thread

[Publish Date updated to restore to front page]

Okay as an experiment here it is. Discuss your favourite generals here!

Well perhaps… Really this is simply the place to post news-items, fun-items or whatever takes your fancy. In short just post what you want here.

It’s just another wee experiment – comments welcome.


[Image: General Sir Anthony Cecil Hogmanay Melchett (Stephen Fry)]

17,284 thoughts on “The General Discussion Thread

  1. Ben, everyone on Earth will get infected eventually. Those who survive will have developed resistance to it. It’s resistance that will eventually turn 2019-nCoV from a pandemic into just another background infection. That should take about six months.

  2. Node, this should appeal to you

    But wait a minute …
    In your black and white caricature of the world, I am a conspiracy theorist and all conspiracy theorists believe all conspiracy theories, and thus you think this link will appeal to me. Yet you believe the content of the link is true, which makes you also a conspiracy theorist who believes all conspiracy theories, including the demolition of Twin Towers.
    Make your mind up.

  3. Node, I wrote “escaped”, not “designed, created and released, all with the deliberate intention of causing a deadly pandemic”. There yet may be an actual conspiracy of silence about the escape.

    Look, some things you believe get called “conspiracy theories”. Some things I believe also, eg. I think it likely that Dr David Kelly was murdered, and the UK government orchestrated a cover-up.

    But some beliefs are nothing but a conspiracy theory in the derogatory sense, in that there’s no robust evidence for them and the alleged conspiracy would need to grow without limit.

    But conversely, there are some beliefs that are derided as conspiracy theories even though there is some evidence for them, generally inconclusive, and they require only a finite, limited conspiracy, indeed generally a fairly small conspiracy.

    And just to complicate things further there’s systemic bias, which can look like a very large conspiracy.

    But maybe we should start with something simpler. Can you tell science from pseudoscience?

  4. Anyway, hopefully I’ll die of 2019-nCoV soon and that will solve all our problems. I can’t pull myself out of the dive I’m in, and all sorts of people know what a shit person I am. I hope that soon you are all relieved of this burden.

  5. I shall vote for Bernie Sanders if he is the Democratic candidate, even though he ripped me off for over $500 during the last campaign and its aftermath, forcing me to change my Master Card.

  6. So I’m awake again, and it’s straight back into the nightmare. I hate being alive. I want to beat myself in the face.

    Come on Fred and Phil and Trudi, to tell me it’s all my own fault and I should be tougher. Come on Node, encourage and endorse some viscous anti-Semite to hurl insults at me, because he’s sure I’m a Jew. Come on Ben, tell me I have a stone for a heart because I won’t include some Internet fantasy among the testable matters of science; don’t bother learning how it’s done, just insult me, that’ll fix it. Come on Stef, tell me some more lies about your partner of twenty years, to try to make me put pressure on him and get him into line in your own little game. Come on Ann and tell me to do everyone a favour by killing myself.

    I can’t hate you all so I’ll hate myself. If you want me to punch myself in the face, just say.

  7. I’m going to run out of heating oil soon and I can’t afford any more. Come on any of you and jeer “get a job” at me.

  8. Come on, let’s have Vronsky and John Goss and Macky and Nikko. You can all kick, kick, kick at me and laugh among yourselves, condemn me for my reaction, instead of discussing mass and velocity and finding the inevitable inequality. Come on Pete and tell me the facts you don’t like are all just my opinion which I’m forcing down your throat. Get louder and louder, interrupt more and more until I, personally, am defeated. Yeah, that’ll change the facts. You think I like those facts?

  9. It was cold last night in London; I invited a homeless man and his dog back to mine rather than go home alone. He refused. He knows his psyche is safer on the streets than with another human. I offered him my bank card and the PIN, but he handed them back because he wanted me to keep living. There was more kindness in that reject of society than in all of you put together.

  10. There are countless thousands of you who lock the shop behind you as you finish work each evening, to keep the moneyless scum out of the warm building every night so it can carry on paying your wages the next day.

  11. Oh, I forgot RobG, champion of Deutsche Physik, the conspiracy theory that nuclear physics is a conspiracy by Jews to poison all of God’s creation:

    Yes RobG, do please take me outside and shoot me. Have some more burgundy mate; I’m sure you don’t need to think any more clearly than you do already.

    And the rest of you, if that sort of fascism appeals to you, yes I am sure your collective efforts will save the world.

    That’s because I’m a racist, right Phil?

  12. I don’t hate anyone, but toady Delaware Senator Chris Coons really challenges me, talking nonsense about Biden’s decades of public service without a word of criticism, like Clinton’s bombing campaign to avoid removal from office during his impeachment hearing in the Senate, Biden taking over from John Bolton during Obama’s early days to make it look like North Korea was a nuclear threat with a quake made to look like a test, and covering up at least the murders of Jake Wheeler and ali-Resa Pahlavi because they were attempting to change policy with Iran’s mullahs.

    Coons as made a political career out of kissing Biden’s ass.

  13. Clark: Do something today that is not part of your routine. You see your own spiral, so stop the momentum. Change gears and your scenery will change. I am sorry my role has aggravated your self-image. You are a good person and it’s painful to see you in this state.

  14. See the media is working 24/7 to see that US covert chief Joe Biden is the Democrat nominee for POTUS. Worried about profits if Sanders gets elected.

  15. When I am seeking an even keel under duress I have a breathing exercise akin to meditative process. It truly focuses away from the self by directing the mind to rest. It stills the self-talk which haunts us.

    I also use it during restless nights of fitful sleep.

  16. Ben,

    thanks, deep thanks. But “You see your own spiral, so stop the momentum” is the same mistake nearly everyone has got into the habit of making. The spiral is merely my trajectory within the much larger social – political – economic environment which determines it; it isn’t “my own”. I saw countless homeless people when I went into London on Tuesday, and I saw countless more in Chelmsford yesterday. The ones who have homes and wealth don’t owe it to “a breathing exercise akin to meditative process”. They owe it to luck, and to their degree of conformity with this system that requires an underclass, to scare the masses into shit jobs.

    Likewise, Ben, I’m not criticising you in this comment. This isn’t “your” mistake, just as it isn’t “my” downward spiral. It’s from the ideology of the individualist Toxic System we’re all immersed in; no one can hope to remain untainted by it. It’s from the same source as Fred’s tally of his carbon emissions relative to mine, and the common argument that XR should go campaign in China. “Ignore the system, concentrate on its effects”

    Together we stand, divided we fall.

  17. “Trouble is, I was already doing that sort of thing…”

    Then perhaps you’re doing it wrong. I know it’s hard to just drop the subject and move on, but that’s the right course.

  18. I guess being a kind of Army brat made me comfortable in my own company. Always being the new kid made me self-soothing because any friendships were short-lived and superficial, and in my mind almost unnecessary.

    The bad part is I’m somewhat misanthropic and intolerant of a basic civilian and their ignorant and thoughtless voting patterns.

  19. Sure Ben, it’s all my own fault.

    Everyone says that about everyone else; “I’m more right than everyone else. Do what I say and everything will be fine”. That’s just the id talking, through the self-image, its shell.

  20. No, I told you, I already do as you advise. It’s you having it your way that this is always enough, without structural changes beyond myself.

  21. I seem to be assailed by absolutism all around. I lost my temper with Phil on Tuesday evening; he insisted upon an absolute position, offhandedly invalidating the other perspectives I offered. No debate; dismiss. The message is “shut up Clark; you’re inferior to me”.

    Likewise I have Ben’s absolutist statement “Your mental state is your own responsibility”. Try substituting health for mental state. OK, responsibility for health can be pushed 100% onto the individual. If their workplace is damaging their health, get another job. If a factory near their home spews toxic fumes, move elsewhere. If there are no unhealthy jobs, turn to crime or starvation…

    My outlook is that we’re all somewhat responsible for each other’s mental states. Yes, most of us hold the primary responsibility for our own, but the influences of all the others around us add up to more than that.

    “Mental” (ie. emotional) health is a social issue, and it’s not good to be well adjusted to a sick society.


    The Novel Coronavirus, 2019-nCoV, is Highly Contagious and More Infectious Than Initially Estimated

    Authors: Steven Sanche, YenTing Lin, Chonggang Xu, Ethan Romero-Severson , Nick Hengartner, Ruian Ke

    Los Alamos National Laboratory

    R0 value is likely to be between 4.7 and 6.6. We further show that quarantine and contact tracing of symptomatic individuals alone may not be effective and early, strong control measures are needed to stop transmission of the virus

  23. Happy Valentine’s Day though most people cannot show at least tolerance towards people from them, much less affection.

    I find people different from me attractive, and I don’t give a hoot about their sexuality as .long as they leave me out. I don’t even want to know what it is, much less join in with them in doing anything.

    Guess that was notable which Toni Morrison found worthy of recognition in me, not my interest in less attractive behavior, like assassinations, ‘false flag’ missions, and secret wars.

  24. One major takeaway from the above is they now have certain knowledge that passengers who have tested positive subsequently can test negative for multiple days then test positive again. That has been the Chinese experience as well which they have well documented. The current combination of virus behaviour and available tests means a negative test is not reliable.

    Which makes so called “superspreader” Steve Walsh case in the UK even stranger. We are told he tested negative two days in a row and was released from hospital. I hope that’s just a cover story to get him out of the media and that he is isolated elsewhere. China insists on 14 days of negative tests as that’s what their experience has shown is necessary.

    The Japanese whistleblower Dr Li Wenliang (34) tested repeatedly negative himself despite being infected for a month. He finally tested positive just a few days before his death in intensive care.

  25. Happy St Valentine’s Day, Trowbridge and all.

    In March 1993 I met a wonderful young woman who became my girlfriend for a few months. Born near Porte d’Orléans, Paris, raised in New Orleans, USA, her mother was a voodoo priestess. She spent her teens in the Haight-Ashbury district of San Francisco, birthplace of the hippie counterculture of the 1960s. Her name was Marion Brigitte Yvette Chausseurpied. One of the things I leaned from her was that in her US culture, Valentine’s cards and gifts are exchanged between close friends and siblings; it is about Love rather than eroticism.

    Marion took her own life by hanging herself on October 31 of the same year. I still miss her terribly.

  26. Not that I know of Clark. Some might claim their tests are better. We just have to wait and see I suppose.

    I don’t have any reason to believe British tests are any more reliable than Chinese or Japanese ones. But then we’re British and superior to everyone else, as Boris tells us, so maybe we do have magic infallible tests.

  27. At least Geman President Frank-Walter Steinmeier had the guts to say that the Germans started the terrible war after the Anglo-Americans controversially bombed Dresden to Hell.

    Would trade all our politicians just to get him.

  28. I too find people different from me attractive, and I don’t give a hoot about their sexuality especially if I get to join in! Well, not quite, but sex is definitely good fun, and good for forming emotional bonds.

  29. I don’t remember seeing this on Blue Peter

    Scientists in Hong Kong have invented a cheap and easy way to make home-made masks as the city, gripped by fear over the deadly coronavirus, suffers from long queues and price-gouging over its dwindling supplies of protective gear.
    How to make your own masks and protective shield at home:

    Required items: kitchen roll, strong tissue paper, elastic bands, a hole punch, paper tape, scissors, plastic-coated steel wire, a pair of glasses, plastic file folders and binder clips.

  30. My Ginger is a Ridgeback labelled ‘pit bull mix’ like 90% of the shelter dogs. I still feel bad about not focusing on senior/disabled instead going with near-grown pups.

    Searching Ridgeback rescue orgs I find the majority of open adoptives are Senior dogs, or as I call them ‘coyote bait’ here in the desert, where the grandkids dump Granny’s pooch thinking she would not want him put down in a humanitarian manner.

    People can take care of themselves

  31. I feel certain Ginger was dumped at the shelter by a breeder who didnt want a puppy with a gimp leg.

    We figured it out but I suspect she would have gone lame with most homes, then finally put down because surgery was costly.

    If I can bypass the shelter and convince breeders to call me first that would be fabulous..

  32. “People can take care of themselves”

    That is just so wrong. People take care of each other. Look around wherever you are. Look at all the skills required to make the human environment. Humans are the most social species there is, by a long, long way, and an isolated human is terribly vulnerable.

    How did capitalism manage to propagate such a massive deception as individualism? How can it have convinced almost everyone of almost the exact opposite of reality?

  33. On average, several thousand Brits die of flu each year. I’m willing to bet anyone a tenner* that by this time next year less than 100 Brits will have died of coronavirus. Actually I’ll be surprised if it makes double figures, but I’m hedging my bet because there will be pressure to include dubious deaths from other causes amongst the coronavirus total. Whatever the total, it will consist of mostly weak and infirm people who were vulnerable to any infection.

    *Tenner to be paid to a charity of the winner’s choice, using a recogniseable psuedonym, details to be agreed.

  34. What’s your reasoning Node?

    Total confirmed cases 64,460, of which 218 outside China.
    Total deaths 1,384, of which 3 outside China.
    Total recovered 7,171, of which 92 outside China.

    Mortality rate among known outcomes:

    China: just over 16%
    Other: just over 3%

    I do not intend to bet on so many lives. I hope UK excess deaths over the next few months can be kept below two million.

  35. There are a lot of numbers between 99 and 1,000, Node, so you have a big cushion in offering your bet.

    just grandstanding.

  36. The FBI has a most undeserved reputation, dropping its investigation of Andrew McCabe, like having no interest in investigating the obvious murder of John Wheeler, and not questioning the alleged suicide of Iranian heir to its throne, ali-Resa Pahlavi.

    In fact, when Jonathan Vankin was inquiring to learn more about the conspiracy which assassinated JFK, I said that the Bureau obviously had a file on me. He doubted it., and wanted to do an FOIL check on me.

    When I agreed, he was most surprised by what occurred. It supplied the Agency checks it had on me, and added that it had a secret file on me which he had to obtan in order to see.

    Me who had a Top Secret clearance to join the Army’s CIC

    It’s as bad vas the GDR’s Stasi.

  37. I hope UK excess deaths over the next few months can be kept below two million.

    Actually I’ll be surprised if it makes double figures …

    We’ll soon see who’s got the most realistic view of the world.

  38. Capitalism is the reason we dont have integrated systems like a single foundational system for RFID chips for dogs.

    There are scanners that ostensibly cover all the money-grubbing your own ‘unique’ system with parts only you can furnish, and everyone else does likewise. Selling shit is your prime motive? Voila! You’re an entrepreneur, dickhead!

  39. Capitalism has killed many Journalism.

    I dont say Media because that includes advertising, which journalism eventually became.

    Before the 70s News Divisions were exempted from budgets and were regarded as PSAs (public service announcements)..therefore ratings or tracked viewership which determined the cost of commercial spots, were not germane.

    In other words they operated without the undue influence of popularity. They had autonomy.

    Now they are shills for public opinion and craft their programming to appeal to the widest audience.

    Capitalism killed Journalism

  40. The real bitch of today’s ‘journalism’ is that NEWS and entertainment are now a single hybrid blurring the lines between fantasy and reality.


    Epidemiological and clinical features of the 2019 novel coronavirus outbreak in China

    Authors: Yang Yang, Qingbin Lu, Mingjin Liu, Yixing Wang, Anran Zhang, Neda Jalali, Natalie Dean, Ira Longini, M. Elizabeth Halloran, Bo Xu, Xiaoai Zhang, Liping Wang, Wei Liu, Liqun Fang

    Methods All 2019-nCoV infected patients reported to Chinese Center for Disease Control and Prevention up to 26 January 2020 were included for analysis. Disease and death incidence were compared between demographic groups and baseline conditions.

    Case fatality rates (CFRs) and the basic reproductive number R 0 was estimated with a transmission model.

    Results: As of 26 January 2020, a total of 8866 patients including 4021 (45.35%) laboratory confirmed patients were reported from 30 provinces. Nearly half of the patients were aged 50 years or older (47.7%). There was a clear gender difference in incidence with 0.31 (male) vs. 0.27 (female) per 100,000 people (P<0.001). The
    median incubation period was 4.75 (interquartile range: 3.0-7.2) days. About 25.5%, 69.9% and 4.5% patients were diagnosed with severe pneumonia, mild pneumonia, and non-pneumonia, respectively. The overall CFR was estimated be 3.06% (95% CI 2.02-4.59%), but male patients, ≥ 60 years old, baseline diagnosis of severe pneumonia and delay in diagnosis were associated with substantially elevated CFR.

    …The higher prevalence of ACE2 receptors, to which the virus binds, in the lungs of Asian males could have contributed to this gender difference

    There have been statistical models run to try and gauge how many mild or asymptomatic cases there are on the one hand and how many severe pneumonia cases turn into deaths if not treated in intensive care due to not presenting and/or system overwhelmed. Taking both into account, these CFR rates run from about 1% CFR through to about 10% – For comparison the common flu is about 0.1%. There’s actually much higher values than 10% but only if certain things turn out to be true and/or happen.

    It is an open question at the moment if the relative lack of ACE2 receptor sites in non Asian male respiratory system might mean the disease is less serious for non Asian males overall. The Japanese worryingly have a higher percentage of ACE2 than even the Chinese.

    It might just be possible that those of European and African descent are to some extent protected compared to Asian males but there may be some other factor causing the difference in CFR between males and females that is seen in China.

    Perhaps then the CFR will be at the low end for these groups at about 1% – still 10 times that of the common flu with the added bonus that nobody is immune. Perhaps it won’t.

    Or perhaps SARS-COV-2, to give it its official name, will mutate and makes things better, Or worse…

    We will find out some answers fairly soon.

  42. Trump himself is proof of Capitalisms failure.

    Five bankruptcies thus far. How are his Scot Golf resorts doing? Yet millions of seemingly educated and intelligent people follow him around like he was a certain paper-hanger with mommy issues.

  43. If I had to compare Trump to a media character it would either be Woody Allen’s ZELIG or Chauncey Gardener from BEING THERE.

  44. The definition of a zelig is an ordinary person who can change themselves to imitate anyone they are near.
    An example of zelig is a person who learns everything they can about a specific subject in order to fit in with a specific group of people.”

    Yup. That’s him.

  45. Steadfast
    Main Character Resolve
    Chance remains steadfast in his desire to live in a home where he can work in a garden and watch television.

    Main Character Growth
    Chance must hold on until he finds a permanent living arrangement.

    Main Character Approach
    Chance accepts any situation he finds himself in; he adapts himself to the environment:

    “Chance did what he was told” (Kosinski, 1970, p. 7).

    Main Character Mental Sex
    Chance uses the male problem solving technique of cause and effect. For example, when faced with threatening gang members, he attempts to turn them off with a television remote control.

    Danged if that ain’t him too

  46. Ben,

    CDC were asked directly (at a press conference a few days ago) by a Hong Kong journalist if the disease was more serious in Asians and the response was they had no evidence to believe that.

    They were also asked if it might have escaped from a biolab and the response was not to answer followed by “no time for more questions.”

    The biolab theory is based on certain bits of its genetic code (RNA) have what looks like a patented lab technique signature previously used in vaccine research for SARS. It also has some worrying HIV proteins but they could be by chance – but still worrying.

    Basically the virus is a mostly standard bat corona virus with a modified SARS ACE2 cell entry spike welded on (thus the “novel” designation). Outside a lab, It requires evolution a minimum of many decades of chance mutations to get there from the last common ancestor of SARS-COV-2 and known corona viruses, if I understand correctly.

  47. Many have said its akin to common cold AA.

    Accidents in Biolabs happens, but it happens more often with no control group other than for-profit adventures or responsible government.

  48. No virologist though has said it is akin to the common cold. What can be said is that typical human corona viruses are one cause of the common cold.

    But typical common cold viruses don’t have SARS entry spikes and immune system suppressants as seen in HIV.

  49. Whether you see Zelig or Chance it is indisputable that Existentialism verbalized the continuum of consciousness wherein not just the THOUGHT is not alone enough to create Reality, but the effect boosted by belief and expectation reaps results that comply with the intention.

    Of course such reality creation is more or less profound based on the energy of ones intent.

    These two characters possessed no character of their own. They mirrored others.

  50. Okay. I’m not leaving that hole open because y’all will just walk around it.

    Trump is brilliant to his sycophants because they are projecting..

    But he’s actually just an average IQ that is both willfully ignorant and savagely proud.

    He’s like the opposite of Romes Claudius, who was thought malleable as a moron, but was actually brilliant.

  51. In case anybody thinks I made up the name

    SARS-CoV-2 (Severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2) Sequences

    The tables below list the SARS-CoV-2 sequences currently available in GenBank and the Sequence Read Archive (SRA).

    The sequence lists were last updated Friday Feb 14 10:20 2020 EST, and are updated as additional sequences are released. The table content is available for download.

    European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control

    On 9 January 2020, China CDC reported a novel coronavirus as the causative agent of this outbreak, which is phylogenetically in the SARS-CoV clade. The novel coronavirus has, thus, been named ‘severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2’ (SARS-CoV-2), while coronavirus disease associated with it is now referred to as COVID-19.

  52. COVID-19 stands for Corona Virus Disease 2019.

    The “joke” amongst some virologists is it stands for Covert ID 19 so authorities can avoid saying SARS-COV-2 to the public.

  53. Good morning folks. Good morning Steph; I expect you’ll read this. I’ve had a good night’s sleep, and I’ve been sleeping twelve hours a day recently, but I feel tired nonetheless. Ben and Trowbridge, please hold back on the health / nutritional advice; I take good care of myself apart from smoking; my tiredness problem is emotional.

    Ben, thanks for your criticisms of capitalism, with which I strongly agree. You surprised me by posting those, and I cherish being surprised.

    Squonk, thank you for your technical summary; elegantly concise and thorough.

  54. Node, you intend to judge our entire “world views” on the basis of one gamble that you value at a tenner??!

    Node, I really recommend that you straighten / sober up for a bit; a few weeks or months. I have nothing against intoxication, in fact I approve of and promote it, but without periods spent in the base state intoxication just becomes the base state, and thus nothing is gained. Intoxication’s value lies in change and versatility, and the expansion of your boundaries these enable.

    When you find yourself thinking “if this virus comes to little it proves that the Twin Towers were methodically laced with explosives weeks before the 9/11 attacks”, it’s time to remind yourself of what your brain does without external chemical alteration. You’ve tied something unknown and in the process of unfolding to an opinion that you haven’t self-challenged in decades.

  55. Suddenly overnight my coffee pot seems to have changed shape. I’ve had it for years and normally its hinged lid sort of clips into the pot’s top rim, but this morning it keeps popping open.

  56. A few days ago I noticed that the pheasants were courting, and this morning I see that some of the buds on the elder have opened.

  57. Some good news on the climate front.

    Global co2 emissions in 2019 remained the same as 2018 despite the world economy expanding by 2.9%. The substantial decreases in carbon emissions from the developed world has cancelled out the increases in the developing world.

    This is not good news because it means carbon output has peaked and will stay constant or start falling. These are just two data points and say little about future trends, global carbon emissions could well start rising again this year, could fall, could remain the same, we don’t know. This is good news because it is bad news for the doom and gloom merchants trying to use climate change as an excuse to bring about political change.

  58. Journalism was changed by all the wars, hot and cold, and governments got involved in reporting them which we had to be winning or seeming to ne winning. And the problem was compounded by having allies.

    Add the consequent propaganda had had to be helped by silencing critics in various ways, even killing them if seen necessary. If opponents didn’t cooperate, they hard to be portrayed as doing so.

    The process is clearly seen in the FBI murders of MI6 hacker Gareth Williams and concerned agent Steve Ivens.

    Williams was lent to Robert Mueller’s bureau because he could legally hack the laptops of the Manhattan 11, the CIA sleepers who were looking for Russian agents. The only problem was that the FBI wanted to make them look like what they were looking for which Williams knew was not true.

    Consequently, he went on the rampage when he learned what was happening which resulted apparently going to the Russian to leak what had happened for which he was cruelly murdered. The British security services going to great lengths to get to him and make it look like he had committed suicide, a problem compounded by a colleague he worked with, Gudrun Loftus, stating that she would continue his work, necessitating her murder too. Then there was the killing of astrophysicist Steve Rawlings too for asking her apparent murderer too many probing questions about it.

    The murder of Ivens was completely a Bureau internal matter. He became obsessed about the air liner dealings at Burbank’s Bob Hope International Airport, especially after his friend test pilot Adler was killed in the sabotaged Suikov 100 air liner in Indonesia in competition with Boeing’s 737 MAX for the business, and wanted to President Obama all about it when he came to Burbank in May 2012 on a campaign junket. For doing this, he was made out as a security threat to the POTUS.

    While on the run. he was found after three months by a posse looking for him shot in the head near the church he attended, an alleged suicide.

    These facts make nonsense of claims that the Bureau is apolitical.


    ACE2 Expression in Kidney and Testis May Cause Kidney and Testis Damage After 2019-nCoV Infection

    Caibin Fan1, Kai Li1, Yanhong Ding1, Wei Lu2, Jianqing Wang1*1 Department of Urology, The Affiliated Suzhou Hospital of Nanjing Medical University 2 School of Nursing, Suzhou Vocational Health and Technical College

    The results indicate that ACE2 highly expresses in renal tubular cells, Leydig cells and cells in seminiferous ducts in testis. Therefore, virus might directly bind to such ACE2 positive cells and damage the kidney and testicular tissue of patients.

    …Here in this study, we first reviewed the latest literatures and found about 10% of the patients infected with 2019-nCoV had abnormal renal function.

    …Another major point in this study is the high expression level of ACE2 in testicular cells. It is well known that viruses such as HIV, HBV and mumps could enter the testicular cells and cause viral orchitis. Besides, in some cases, virus-induced testicular tissue damage might result in male infertility and testicular tumor [1

    …Current clinical data show that a large proportion of the novel coronavirus (2019-nCoV) – infected pneumonia patients are young adults and even children, so the potential testicular damage caused by the virus may exist as a late complication

    …Following-up and evaluation of the reproductive functions should be done in recovered male SARS patients, especially the young male patients.

  60. Meanwhile in La La Land – or the Disunited Kingdom.

    Coronavirus: Eight of nine UK patients receiving treatment discharged

    All but one of the nine people being treated for the coronavirus in the UK have been discharged from hospital.

    They were discharged after twice testing negative for the virus, NHS England said on Saturday.

    Contrast with

    Are coronavirus tests flawed?

    There are deep concerns laboratory tests are incorrectly telling people they are free of the coronavirus.

    Stories in several countries suggest people are having up to six negative results before finally being diagnosed.

    Meanwhile, officials in the epicentre of the epidemic, Hubei province, China, have started counting people with symptoms rather than using the tests for final confirmation.

    I really hope we don’t get to anywhere near the situation seen in China because if we do the “nothing to worry about” response, from supposed authorities, will bring about such anger later that their lives will be in danger from the public, for terribly misleading them, never mind the virus.


    Eight more coronavirus infections confirmed in Tokyo as Japan sees spate of domestic transmissions

    Eight people in Tokyo, three more who have connections to a hospital in Wakayama Prefecture and one person in Nagoya tested positive for COVID-19 on Saturday as Japan struggles with a daily increase in the number of domestic cases of the virus.

    Seven of the eight people in Tokyo had had close contact with a taxi driver who this week tested positive for the coronavirus, the Tokyo Metropolitan Government said.

    The remaining person in Tokyo is a businessman in his 40s and is in serious condition in hospital. After showing symptoms such as coughing and fever last Monday, the man made a business trip on a Tokaido Shinkansen bullet train to Aichi Prefecture, metro officials said, adding that he has not traveled to China recently.

    …The new cases bring the total number of infections in Japan to 338, including 285 on the Diamond Princess cruise ship.

    …“Now we’re facing a different situation,” health minister Katsunobu Kato told a press conference the same day, referring to a rise in the number of cases where the route of infection cannot be tracked.

  62. 2003 SARS epidemic was still ongoing, the World Health Organization (WHO) reported a fatality rate of 4% (or as low as 3%), whereas the final case fatality rate ended up being 9.6%.

    AA: Even If you double the current expectation it’s not pandemic

  63. Ben,

    The thing with the original SARS was that it was nowhere near as infectious as the current variant and at infectious stage you tended to be seriously unwell and unlikely to be at the pub.

    These factors made it relatively easier to control the spread with contact tracing and isolation.

    This “novel” variant means you can easily be infectious with little or no symptoms – at least at first.

  64. Regardless AA there has to be an expiration date for exposure/incubation. Is two weeks without symptoms not enough?

  65. Well two weeks is what China is using. The UK appears to be using 2 days because us Brits are a superhuman master-race, superior in every way.

    God Save the Queen!

  66. Ben,

    You said “there has to be an expiration date”. Some viruses don’t expire until the patient does – however long it takes. HIV/AIDS a classic example. SARS-COV-2/Covid-19 has some HIV like genetic coding. Not that I’m suggesting this one hides and hangs about forever. At least I certainly hope not!

  67. I guess ‘expiration date’ is inaccurate so maybe ‘dormant’?

    The lack of certainty surrounding treatment for coronaviruses is partly due to the boom-and-bust nature of outbreaks—they can spread like wildfire and then disappear, as SARS did, said Gandhi. Although that is good for the public’s health, it also means scientists sometimes don’t have the means to thoroughly test a treatment that combats the specific virus in humans.

    Dr. Anne Schuchat, principal deputy director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, said in a press conference Tuesday that research on the virus causing the outbreak must not be “an afterthought. Because we don’t know how long some of these new emerging infections will persist.”

  68. Ben,

    I keep saying this but the original SARS did NOT “spread like wildfire “. The new one is currently doing so though.

    Between November 2002 and July 2003, an outbreak of SARS in southern China caused an eventual 8,098 cases,

    Look how long it took to get 8000 cases compared to variant 2 which is now at 67,000 when it only started in December and Imperial College London research (as well as others) suggests actual numbers are ten times that figure.

    Also the original SARS hasn’t disappeared. Labs still have it.

  69. The researchers infected mice with the human RSV, and found that after 14 days, the virus could no longer be found in samples taken from the airways, but tell-tale traces of the virus’s genetic material (viral RNA) were still found lying dormant in lung tissue over 100 days later.Apr 26, 2004 › 200…
    Researchers Discover Cold Virus Can ‘Hit And Hide’ — ScienceDaily

    I think Cov being airborne makes it more dangerous than SARS or MRSA or Hiv.

  70. – …“Now we’re facing a different situation,” health minister Katsunobu Kato told a press conference the same day, referring to a rise in the number of cases where the route of infection cannot be tracked.”

    Oh shit. It’s loose in Japan.

    – Coronavirus: Eight of nine UK patients receiving treatment discharged […] after twice testing negative for the virus, NHS England said on Saturday..

    Who the fuck made that UK decision? Unless the tests were two weeks apart which there hasn’t been time for, the fucker’s probably loose in the UK.

  71. Squonk: “Please watch this video if you have the time. This British couple have been running a video diary from the Diamond Princess – the cruise ship to hell. They are now calling for help.

    He lost my sympathy when he said he was a “staunch Tory”. Screw him.

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