The General Discussion Thread

[Publish Date updated to restore to front page]

Okay as an experiment here it is. Discuss your favourite generals here!

Well perhaps… Really this is simply the place to post news-items, fun-items or whatever takes your fancy. In short just post what you want here.

It’s just another wee experiment – comments welcome.

Squonk.

[Image: General Sir Anthony Cecil Hogmanay Melchett (Stephen Fry)]

17,285 thoughts on “The General Discussion Thread

  1. Squonk

    There is little point in contacting Craig about the moderation. The last time I did so the answer was along the lines of “the moderators don’t seem to like you very much, do they”. Very droll and one is left with the impression that Craig either approves of the moderators’ discriminatory tactics or is unaware of their actions or is unable to control them.

    As for your “Anyway you are always free not to read and comment on Craig’s blog” that is rather sinister as it is in effect saying “ignore, look aside, keep quiet and don’t argue”. Would you apply the same argument to those followers of Craig – and Craig himself – who do not let a day go past without belly-aching about the MSM? Surely they should not read or comment on the MSM?

    And to take you first point last : yes, I bet Craig was very concerned. Especially just a couple of days before his trial date. A pity he’s not °usually ° so concerned…….

  2. Habbabkuk, I’ve often told you and Macky that you have more in common than you think. I suspect you both hate me telling you that, but there you go.

    Craig has done plenty of human rights work, some of it involving campaigns publicised through his blog. If he hasn’t run any such campaign recently, it’s probably because a lot of his resources have been diverted into a pointless but expensive libel suit.

    As for anti-Semitic comments, you’ve probably noticed that such commenters work mostly through hints and innuendo. It actually took me years to properly identify the subtext. Probably they have become very cagey through being evicted from forum after forum, and now use this peculiar veiled language. I had to look up some of their targets; I knew Chomsky was Jewish, but had no idea of Amy Goodman or Stanley Kubrick’s backgrounds. I have recently come to believe that the problem extends further than I’d suspected, and even concepts like “Jewish physics” are still doing the rounds! It’s pissing me off and I’m working on the matter, and yes, I will be discussing it with Craig at some point.

  3. Despite what you seem to think one of the oldest standard rules for moderators is that comments should be deleted and users banned from further commenting on the blog for anti-Semitism. People were banned for this reason long before the Sky News appearance and subsequent events.

    You may remember there was a time a few years ago when Craig was rarely posting and the blog was without moderators for a while – which some unsavoury characters took advantage of. Comments were closed for a time until new moderation could be put in place. That all pre-dates my helping with server admin by the way.

    Craig only occasionally provides feedback to his moderators but I think is planning on updated guidance when time permits. He doesn’t normally look at the deleted comments unless someone draws his attention to something specific if you were wondering.

  4. CM deletes whatever I post now about the al-hilli massacre, MI6’s apparent involvement in it, ‘C’s Alex Younger looking for traditional agents rather than maverick killers, what happened to Dr. David Kelly, Alexander Litvinenko, Gareth Williams, Gudrun Loftus, Steve Rawlings et al.

    Some free discussion!

  5. Really shocking that CM started the threads on the al-Hilli massacre by declaring that British intelligence was not involved, thanks to what his sources told him.

    He just helped its cover up.

  6. … you know, I think I react to the Identicons a bit like I might to a Rorschach ink blot test. I’m not sure what anyone else would make of my flaming anthracite Mandelbrot excerpt, and Squonk’s sqounk is just a squonk, of course, but many of the retro-games’ style patterns give me an immediate impression that tends to last because it seems somehow appropriate, telling me something about how I feel about the commenter. Of course I can’t say what any of them are because they are necessarily stereotypes, though I hope original and fairly benign ones. I know we shouldn’t stereotype but it’s unavoidable, isn’t it? I never could work out Vronsky’s shed thing, though.

  7. Clark

    “Habbabkuk, I’ve often told you and Macky that you have more in common than you think. I suspect you both hate me telling you that, but there you go.”
    _________________

    Just hate for hateful ideas and hateful outlooks, Clark , but no personal hatred – after all, we’re all just pixels, aren’t we……

    Re being having much in common with Macky : that was a bit of a low blow, surely? 🙂 I should say that there is a fundamental difference : Macky is an unconscious buffoon who occasionally posts a serious comment whereas I’m a serious person who occasionally posts a consciously buffoonish comment. But I’m happy to repeat that his comments on Craig and the moderators are very near to the mark.

    ==================

    “As for anti-Semitic comments, you’ve probably noticed that such commenters work mostly through hints and innuendo. ”

    _______________

    I fully agree that there can be a fine line between comments that are anti-semitic and comments that are anti-Zionist and/or anti-Israeli policies and actions. And I am fully aware that some will dishonestly accuse any and all of the latter as being revelatory of anti-semitism.

    However : there has been enough circumstantial evidence over the years to show that many many commenters are indeed anti-semites. In that connection, the words of yours which I quote above are spot on.

    And while we’re on the subject, I’m happy to accept Craig’s assurance that he is not an anti-semite (or certainly not a conscious one). However – and your words are again relevant to this point – I believe he does offer a platform to covert anti-semites.

    *********************

    Afterthought: is it not curious that it is possible for me to be able to post on here on subjects like this (despite the fact that Squonk has never trumpeted his belief in free speech as far as I’m aware) while the very same posts would not have survived Craig’s moderators’ blue pencils?

  8. Squonk

    “Despite what you seem to think one of the oldest standard rules for moderators is that comments should be deleted and users banned from further commenting on the blog for anti-Semitism. People were banned for this reason long before the Sky News appearance and subsequent events.”
    ____________________

    I am well aware that overt anti-semitism is banned on CM (eg, holocaust denial is off-limits) and has been since before the libel case. The real problem which has not been addressed so far, however, is very ably summed up by Clark (above).

    =====================

    “Craig only occasionally provides feedback to his moderators but I think is planning on updated guidance when time permits.”

    __________________

    There is little wrong with the current guidelines except that some of them probably stand in the way of the cut and thrust which inevitably attaches to debate and discussion. The real problem is that the moderators do not apply them consistently and impartially. They prefer to cut their cloth according to the standing (as they see it) of the client.

    *****************

    But again…..we are all just pixels 🙂

  9. Calling all fans of “Round the Horne” – Jules and Sandy are back!

    Better than ever and not weekly but every day.

    They modestly go under the monikers “reel guid” and “Republicofscotland”

  10. @Habba-Clown, the only serious thing about you is your trolling, and even that has never enabled you to ever get the better of an “unconscious buffoon”, so what does that make you ? 😀

    At least you have the sense to realise the truth of what I’ve always said about Craig & his moderating regime, and I know that you also realise the truth of what I say about you.

    Anyhow did you notice how both Squonk & Clark both immediately deflected from addressing your comments about the appalling moderating at CM’s, by going on about antisemitism ? 😀

  11. The forums on Craig’s blog were added to allow more free-wheeling discussion that doesn’t really belong in post comments.

    If people were to actually use them then the odd link to ongoing forum discussions/arguments from main post comments would be okay.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_forum

    An Internet forum, or message board, is an online discussion site where people can hold conversations in the form of posted messages.[1]

    https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/forums/forum/discussion-forum/

    I think forum use and readership would greatly increase if it just got properly started.

  12. Habbabkuk, no, we are people, not pixels.

    Yes, you and Macky both sing the praises of “cut and thrust” in political debate, and you both complain about the moderation. These facts may be related.

    The winks and nods are a pain, because they centre around acceptance of so-called conspiracy theories, some of which have anti-Semitic elements or even complete anti-Semitic versions. Precisely what people are agreeing with isn’t made clear by the winks and nods, and many, I suspect, don’t realise what they’re buying into.

  13. Macky

    “@Habba-Clown, the only serious thing about you is your trolling, and even that has never enabled you to ever get the better of an “unconscious buffoon”, so what does that make you ? ”
    ___________________

    One man’s corrections are another’s “trolling”, wouldn’t you agree? Especially if you can’t accept reasoned critiques of your more off-the-wall offerings.

    On a point of fact, though, many on here have got the better of you. Remember Dreoilin, for instance? Which probably explains your frequent absences from CM; I believe it’s called licking your wounds?
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    “At least you have the sense to realise the truth of what I’ve always said about Craig & his moderating regime, and I know that you also realise the truth of what I say about you.”

    ________________

    What do you say about me? You’ve never advanced a coherent argument against any critque of your offerings , so it’s difficult to tell. But feel free to engage 🙂

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    “Anyhow did you notice how both Squonk & Clark both immediately deflected from addressing your comments about the appalling moderating at CM’s, by going on about antisemitism ? ”
    _________________

    Actually, I didn’t. Probably because they both addressed one of the main problems of the blog (from my point of view). So the charge of deflection is just silly.

    Nice talking to you, Macky, watch the blood pressure and give my love to Vlad, won’t you 🙂

  14. Macky

    Sorry but I forgot to correct you on something:

    “At least you have the sense to realise the truth of what I’ve always said about Craig & his moderating regime,..”

    __________________

    “always said” – really?

    I distinctly remember you being firmly up Craig’s fundament until the day when he characterised some of your posts about Ukraine as asinine.

    Bo connection, obviously….. 🙂

  15. CM is a fraud, acting as if his connection to the British intelligence services is just the innocent cost he has to pay to stay in business when it gives them an alibi for their connection to the Mossad for doing things like massacring the al-Hillis et al., starting on the fifth anniversary of their silent strike on Syria’s Al Kibor nuclear processing plant.

    Dates do matter in discussing covert operations which CM uses the moderators to stop posting about.

  16. Clark

    “See? This is why the pair of you get moderated.”
    _________________

    Wrong, Clark.

    I have no idea why and for what Macky gets moderated.

    As for myself, my last post to get deleted (after surviving for about an hour) was a three or four paragraph job about President Robert Mugabe and the events in Zimbabwe. A post which did not refer to any other poster, by the way.

    See?

  17. CM is turning into the Jules and Sandy blog (sorry, that should be “the reel guid and republicofscotland blog”. Have they obtained a franchise from CM in exchange for a generous donation to his libel-fighting fund?

    I note en passant that one of Sharp Ears’ posts – which called the pair “Bill and Ben” (one of Sharp Ears’ wittier and more pertinent efforts) – only survived for a few hours before being deleted.

    Clark to take note, please.

  18. (sigh) ok Habbabkuk, standard question; was your comment a reply to someone else’s comment, or a top-level comment? If a reply, has the comment you were replying to gone as well, or any of the comments that it was a reply to?

    The “parent-child” or “ancestor-descendant” model is useful for describing the structure of comments and replies. When an ancestor comment is deleted, all its descendants go into a sort of invisible limbo; they still appear in the Comment Feed, but they don’t get displayed on the article page.

  19. Oh and if you don’t remember, say you don’t remember rather than making out it was a top-level comment just so you can look hard done by; you wouldn’t be the first to try that little trick, eh Macky?

    Grief. It’s only a blog, for God’s sake. You’d think it was Hansard or court records the way some go on.

  20. Right, we should just be happy trolling about matters that can’t be solved, won’t be solved, or reduced to aimless rambles. Go the the library and read Hansard if you are looking for something serious.

  21. Trump setting off a new quake in North Korea, claiming again that it is another nuclear test, could well wreck the South, as it experienced a rare 5.4 quake yesterday near Pohang, on the central east coast of the South.

    The guy is just nuts.

  22. @ Clark ( 4:33 pm)

    Why the sigh – are you tired at 4 in the afternoon?

    AFAIK my post on Mugabe and Zimbabwe was a top level comment (by which expression I suppose you mean the first post on a particular subject). Not a reply to anyone.

  23. America has always prided itself on being a federal republic with a separation of powers; yet, Trump goes to the House, and has a closed, secret rally with its Republicans to pass his tax cut.

    Has he made the USA into a parliamentary system ?

    Hope the Democrats take control of the House next year, and impeach him.

  24. Habbabkuk, try reposting it then. Maybe someone got the hump with you, but it was more likely a touchscreen mistake. Personally I can’t stand touchscreens. I dread to think if the navy are interfacing Android devices to Windows for Submarines.

    If a comment appears but later vanishes, it was either deleted, or one of its ancestors was deleted. If it appears with “Your comment is awaiting moderation”, your comment is awaiting moderation. If you post it but it just vanishes, usually it was eaten by the spam filter.

    Tip; if you’re having a bad comment day, try composing in a text editor and copy-paste into the comment window. That way you have a back-up if it goes AWOL. If you post a comment and it vanishes, take your browser off-line (File > Work offline) and click the Back button; your comment might reappear in the comment window.

    When all else fails, reposting is generally more productive than complaining.

    Now, far more interestingly, what can we do about the apparently growing number of people who buy into ludicrous conspiracy theories, constantly reaffirm each other in a strangely disgruntled coded language, and may or may not be aware of the anti-Semitic versions of the weird stuff they promote? It seems to be a sort of global warming of the infosphere; if it continues at its present rate it’ll be all heat and no light on the Internet by 2025. Trouble is, if you ban them they just play the role of censored martyrs, and claim it as evidence of how powerful the conspiracy must be.

  25. [email protected] Habba-Clown !

    If you hadn’t turn the truth on it’s head, as you have done with everything in your responses, then you wouldn’t be the Clown Troll that you are ! 😀

    Really can’t be bothered addressing all, but there’s two thing that you stated that are amusing enough to highlight;

    Dreoilin “got the better” of me so much, that she retired from commenting after a few exchanges with me ! 😀

    You’re both projecting & mistaking me for somebody else iro Craig; I can count on one hand the number of times I’ve ever stated anything positive about him, and those were all to do with complimenting him for a particularly good Post. Further, at least I was being sincere, totally unlike yourself when you’ve repeatedly tried to flatter him, to get him on side, but even he sees through you, just like most people do also.

    Also amusing that you can’t even be straight with yourself and admit that you were fobbed-off with antisemitism, when you were clearly originally posting to complain about moderation ! 😀

    (talking of which, it was actually the subject of my first appearance on this thread, way back on page 4 !)

  26. Sigh…..

    1..We Do not Know why Dreoiln Left…And yes she was an Irish one

    2…Strange that suporters of Plestine Become Wee Adversaries….Sad

  27. “The great Cut and Thrust of political slapstick.”

    A thousand times better than your narcissistic drama-queen routines.

  28. Brian, do not be deceived. Some people use others’ suffering as levers for their own political objectives. There is simply no compassion in Macky. I have never encountered a colder, more manipulative personality. Its fake identity, its front, is presented as female, something Macho Macky is clearly none too happy about; the genders of the cover identities are probably issued randomly.

    But I should have more compassion. For all I know, Macky could be under compulsion; maybe one of the political prisoners in Uzbekistan. Who knows?

  29. Oh dear, did I touch a soft & tender-spot ?

    I suppose trying to brainwash & poison Brain’s mind about me, is at least different, compared to boring people to death about antisemitism ad nauseum; funny how, at the usual slightest pretext, that you’ve never made a sly insinuation that he’s anti-Semitic given the strong anti-Zionist posts he makes, but then again you need to keep any friends who have yet to see you for what you really are.

  30. Oh dear. Were you trying to, poor thing?

    Brian, Macky will never permit a meeting. There is more I could tell you, but not here. Beware.

  31. Clark

    Whatever you do, do not – repeat not – allow Macks to touch you.

    If he does, you’ll have a dry-cleaner’s bill….. 🙂

  32. Macks

    ” iro Craig; I can count on one hand the number of times I’ve ever stated anything positive about him”
    ___________________

    Well, you were one of the stalwarts of his blog – one of the lunatic trio I jestingly called “the three corporals” (Macky, Fedup and Passerby). Remember?

    As for the estimable Dreoilin, she got the better of you in the sense that she used to say you “weren’t the sharpest knife in the drawer” 🙂 and you never did manage to find a satisfactory reply to that , did you (going puce in the face and spluttering wildly didn’t count, I’m afraid).

  33. Peter Beswick also posted a warning to you Clark;

    “Clark

    I’m going to give you only one opportunity to apologise for the demonic slur on me and the defiling the of memory of the Children of Dunblane and request the Mods to delete your sick self aggrandising vile comment,

    When you conflated my concern over gravatar security with “its a bit like” The Children of Dunblane being better protected if they had, each of them, been armed and trained in close quarter firearms fighting; you revealed just how sick and warped you are to even be able to think of such a disturbing scenario let alone broadcast it on a public blog.

    I politely asked you not to involve me in your hysterical unravellings, the Mods deleted that but thought the poison aimed at me and the Dumblane families should stand.

    I only returned to this threrad after you goaded me with lies about me. I now won’t leave it until your sick rants are silenced.

    As I say you have one opportunity to appologise and have the insanity fuelled comment removed.

    Mods I blame you, Clark is sick, he’s also fucking horrible but don’t encourage or appease him that will make his condition worse.”

    https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2010/01/the_911_post/comment-page-127/#comment-708503

    He’s right to blame the Mods also, as Clark’s condition is only encouraged & made worse when he’s so protected by moderation.

  34. Can anything be more obscene than the discussion of the sale of Leonardo da Vinci’s Salvator Mundi, many contesting it is even his work, others condemning it as a crude one, and still others claiming that Martin Luther did a better job about it with his Reformation when it was done by him in the 1490s for French King Louis XI whose activities in the Italian states kept them from falling to the Turks while promoting Renaissance art and learning.

    Do art experts know anything?

  35. @Trowbridge, not an art expert & know little about the Salvator Mundi, but do know that successive French Kings had to buy off the Turks from invading France, and that the Renaissance was sparked-off by the fall of Constantinople in 1453 to the Turks, as the influx of Greek refugees to Italy included many learnt scholars & artists.

  36. That’s certainly not what Judith Herrin wrote about what happened in Constantinople in her history of Byzantium nor what happened in the Italian states according to Garrett Mattingly’s Renaissance Diplomacy nor in Paul Murray Kendall’s biography of Louis XI.

  37. Macky, that’s very strong personal condemnation from the one I may not name; do you think he has a point? I’m pretty sure I heard that joke about gun nuts on national TV or radio decades ago, probably BBC Radio 4.

  38. Clark: I actually heard some woman suggest that on a “Fox & Friends” discussion panel. Her point was that if the children were armed, they’d say to the shooter (I quote verbatim IIRC) “We like our teacher, and if you shoot her, we will shoot you.”

    The point clearly being made was in the context of arming the children, because – as we all know – an armed society is a polite society. And don’t forget that guns don’t kill people, people kill people. Particularly if they happen to have a gun on them.

    That even made her fellow panelists blanch, but nobody had the grace to call her out for being completely insane.

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