1,587 thoughts on “General Discussion – 2

  1. sym·bi·o·sis
    /ˌsimbīˈōsəs,ˌsimbēˈōsəs/
    Learn to pronounce
    nounBIOLOGY
    interaction between two different organisms living in close physical association, typically to the advantage of both.

    I didn’t say the Left is a carbon copy of the Right, Clark.

    But they seem to share many ideas in common. I just find it odd.

  2. Of course, your links don’t work,as usual, and your droning on about what the sun is doing constantly everywhere as if it is the whole picture is not convincing.

    It overlooks what man is constant doing, often stupidly, like trying to stop floods, forest fires, and just cleaning up up after hurricanes and tornadoes rather than preventing them.

    He uses fertilizers, too often containing too much phosphorus, to prepare fields for plants to grow and mature. He builds dams too often just to stop floods rather than doing it to produce electricity. He doesn’t harness enough wind, tides and volcanic action for making it too.

    He could build more nuclear reactors if he still didm’t have a hangup for using them for war, and use fewer lasers for surprises.

    He just labors on too often traditionally to produce crops, store them, and raise animals for meat, milk, and sale using cultivated feed. He uses forests for heating, and builds as cheaply as he can, getting insurance companies to pay most of the bill for floods, fires, and surprises.

    It’s all very complicated, too wasteful and compact, not just constant sun action.

  3. No. Cherry-picking the under-60s deaths, in a relatively isolated country of low population density under social restrictions, and contrasting that with the effects of an unrestricted activity upon the entire population including the over-60s, is the deliberate creation of a false perspective.

    Specifically, that false perspective excludes the potential of covid-19. I don’t have the antibody test statistics for Scotland, but using Squonk’s citation for England, 6% of the population have encountered SARS-CoV-2, whereas the immune systems of 94% of people are entirely naive to it. 94 / 6 is more than 15, so if covid-19 were allowed to run unrestricted, as you and Fred argue for, there would be over fifteen times the critical cases to date.

    That would surely overwhelm the hospitals preventing critical cases from being treated, so maybe thirty times the deaths to date could be expected. And this is all conservative because the exposure rate is probably lower in Scotland than in England, which is more densely populated and more internationally connected.

    I can’t think of a scenario in which smoking related deaths could suddenly explode by a factor of thirty.

    Node, I didn’t answer your earlier question because Squonk’s reply seemed to render it irrelevant, but I should have done.

    No, I wasn’t referring to different strains of flu. I was making the same point then as I’m making now, which is that a comparison will lack validity unless you compare like with like. Your comment attempted to discredit current measures against covid by comparing a recent 19 week section of the covid death rate against a five year average of the P&I death rate. To have any chance of validity, you’d have to compare the two rates across the same periods, such that the same conditions applied to both.

    But as Squonk’s reply revealed, such a comparison would lack validity anyway because covid is a brand new airborne viral infection whereas P&I is opportunistic growth of bacteria that are already present; the infection pathways are entirely different making covid restrictions ineffective against P&I.

    You shouldn’t thank Fred for encouraging you in your folly. Having spent several weeks with him I know that he’s quite technically competent, quite capable of understanding the true situation, so I strongly doubt that his comments are in good faith anyway.

  4. Node, I think you should consider the possibility that Fred’s just getting off on how easy he finds it to reinforce your folly; that he’s revelling in his ability to manipulate you. I personally experienced him bragging about his ability to manipulate Macky and others. Many of his replies to me cannot be genuine given the context of his technical and numerate abilities, of which I have personal experience. Remember that he is opposed to you regarding Scottish independence; you are one of those he dismisses as Nazis.

  5. Has the Assange hearing ever even mentioned the cruel fate of German colloquial translator Gudrun Loftus’s murder, made to look like an accident; hacker Gareth Williams’s murder, made to look like a suicide, and fellow hacker Edward Snowden, made to flee his home, for fear that he was being set up as a Chinese spy?

    Just asking because I am afraid asking such questions on Craig’s site being deleted or held indefinitely for moderation.

  6. Ben, many on the Left seem to have been taken in by conspiracy theories that originate with and serve sectors within the Right, eg. the anti-UN Agenda 21 “depopulation agenda”, anti-Semitic and Wahhabist-absolving Twin Tower “controlled demolition” twaddle, and assorted antiscience such as the climate science and covid conspiracy theories.

    But the so-called Centrists have their own nonsense conspiracy theories, basically all of them about demonising Russia.

    Humanity is up shit creek without a paddle. We can get out by getting our hands dirty, but no one is willing to be first. We need clear thinking, cooperation and unity, but confusion, division and acrimony are rife.

  7. I’m certainly trying to influence you Node:

    Truth, Justice, Peace.

    You’re just wrong; misled. Fred, I trusted, and was betrayed.

  8. As usual, Clark, you have not mentioned any of my conspiracy theories about the Right, especially those regarding Trick Dick’s assassinations of JFK, MLK, RFK and the attempted assassination of former Alabama Governor George Wallace which broke up the plotters.

  9. Node, Fred knows better than the stuff he posts; his comments can’t be honest. I’m sure he understands the infection potential. He even resorted to implication upon speculation two days ago:

    https://squonk.tk/blog/2020/07/26/general-discussion-2/comment-page-5/#comment-39330

    “Viruses evolve fast and viruses which kill their host don’t last long on the evolutionary tree”

    If Fred has evidence from the virology community that a less lethal strain has displaced the originals, he should post links. He can wheedle out of that one by claiming “I was referring to flu not covid”, but he offers no evidence or reason to support his claim that “the emergency has passed”.

  10. Node, he then came out with this piece of admirably crafted vagueness:

    “The flu virus strain which wiped out more people than WWI in the 1918 epidemic is still with us, it just doesn’t kill vast numbers of people any more.”

    Huh. But is that because the strain prevalent now is less lethal, or because immune systems are still primed for it, or because enough immune systems are still primed for it that the rate at which it kills is restrained by that residual herd immunity? Fred doesn’t say, but then it wouldn’t serve his agenda. Squonk could tell us but he’s a squonk and they prefer to avoid humanity’s unbearable bravado.

  11. Node, like I said, it’s something to consider. Maybe try some chicken-feed sometime; post something contentious that you know is wrong and you have technical knowledge of, and see if Fred tries to amplify it, and how 🙂

  12. Here’s an interview some correspondents here might enjoy:

    https://www.economist.com/open-future/2019/08/12/conspiracy-theories-are-dangerous-heres-how-to-crush-them

    I’d read reviews on the new book “A Lot of People Are Saying”, but this is an interview with the authors. They have written about how in the good old days, a conspiracy theory actually needed some evidence, and needed to be a coherent theory, in order to be eligible for the term.

    Now, all you need is assertion (eg, “It’s a hoax!”) and repeat it aggressively and often. Mock and deride anyone who doesn’t buy into the assertion, throw in disproved notions again and again, and start with a conclusion – there is no evidence that leads to one. It’s conspiracy theory without the theory.

    This mainly comes from the far right, and is used to undermine genuine scientists and institutions. You do not need to match their experience or expertise, just call them all liars and crooks who are in on this conspiracy.

    This is all quite dangerous because it undermines democracy, weakening institutions on which it depends. It leads to divisiveness and encourages hate crimes. It serves to frighten the individuals on whom we depend for their expertise – from climate scientists to medical advisors.

    Of course, in the US it has served to polarise the political sides as never before. This level of hatred is destabalising for the entire country. Opportunistic politicians and the peddlers of conspiracy for financial gain fuel it. A healthy distrust of government is hijacked by it. Situations that threaten us all are are made more dangerous, due to the fight against the likes of pandemics and climate change being made a lot harder.

  13. I start my theory about Nixon in Dallas when President Kennedy was assassinated with the notice on its first edition front page in the upper right hand corner of The Dallas Morning News which said “Guard Not For Nixon” and directed one to go to a page inside which explained that the former Vice President did not need any protection in the city. And if readers believed otherwise they were for other Pepsi Cola people attending a convention at the Trade Mart which JFK was attending that day.

    Result: the President’s limousine did not have its cover on when it entered Dealey Plaza going to it after the notice and story were taken down in later editions.

  14. Glenn, thanks for that. I agree with their summary of the situation and its effects, but they seem blind to how we got here.

    The democratic process has discredited itself. So have politicians as individuals. So has the media. Anyone who has read Bad Pharma can see the same process happening to science. It runs through society like the letters through a stick of seaside rock, and the cause is the same in every case; the overwhelming dominance of capitalism.

    (Fred is likely to smear me as anti-capitalist for the above remark, but for me it’s a matter of balance. We need to be able to appreciate Red, Green and Blue values; all three, or we suffer a kind of blindness. But for the last three decades, only Blue values have been accorded any validity.)

    Since 9/11 the new conspiracism has exploded to fill the void thus created. It is effect, not cause, and the authors are defending a post-war golden age that has been eroding since Thatcher and Reagan and is now almost non existent.

    We need to reboot.

  15. 9/11 was the trigger for the new conspiracism. Twin Tower demolition theory very nearly sucked me in; critical thinking deserted me until I’d escaped. Afterwards, it was blindingly obvious; “what would have happened should an aircraft have failed to arrive?” No conspiracy would have taken such an absurd risk. Boof – demolition theory demolished. But I couldn’t see that until I’d refuted Chandler.

    Yet the true deceptions of 9/11 continue to go unchallenged. NATO ally with Wahhabist jihadists more consistently and more openly than ever. The Pentagon pours half a billion dollars into making “fake” jihadist recruitment videos, and entire nations have been destroyed, leaving vast jihadist breeding grounds. These range from well documented to undeniable, but you wouldn’t guess one of them from the corporate media.

    Such a vast void of understanding cannot remain empty, and with a population dumbed down by decades of pulp designed by psychologists to make them into mindless consumers, it’s unsurprising that it quickly fills with the intellectual equivalent of junk food.

  16. Whereas you’re incapable, Trowbridge.

    You’d been trolling me for days before I responded like that. Now kindly get off my case 🙂

  17. Last time, WWII and the use of nukes precipitated the reboot.

    This time we have to reboot before the calamity, because there’s likely no coming back from what we’re facing.

  18. I am not getting off your case. You are an ignorant, babbling idiot.

    The first reboot resulted after the settlement of the Cuban Missile Crisis with the elimination of British Labour leader Hugh Gaitskell and American President John F. Kennedy.

    The second reboot occurred with the elimination of Nixon, and British politician Anthony Crossland.

    The third reboot happened with the fall of Reagan and Thatcher.

    THe last reboot occurred on 9/11 and the fall of Blairism.
    l

  19. Oh beloved Trowbridge, Thine insults have drawn the veil from my eyes, and now I see, my foolishness and my ignorance! Mighty Thou art, may Thine kingdom come, and may your name live immortal in the anus of history! Praise be! Praise be!

  20. “No. Cherry-picking the under-60s deaths”

    Under 60s is four fifths of the population, that’s hardly cherry picking. It’s a bloody big cherry and damned small tree if it is.

  21. It’s cherry-picking because you excluded the demographic with the highest death rate. If you take all the aces out of the pack, no one will be dealt aces.

    You also quote-mined; the rest of it makes it cherry-picking too, because you didn’t do the same to the population of smokers.

  22. I wonder if Fred doesn’t like people over 60 who live in high density population areas.

    Clark : the authors were not trying to diagnose the world, just looking at the new phenomenon of theory – free conspiracy theories.

  23. From Fred’s data, total deaths under 60 = 236
    From the same table, total deaths over 60 = 4001
    From Google, proportion of population over 60 = 11%
    So 11% of population suffer 94.4% of deaths

    Recommendation: Allow the youngest 89% of the population to live and work as normal and concentrate lockdown resources on the over-60s.

    Outcome : Economy isn’t trashed; covid death rate slashed 20-fold; herd immunity achieved in a couple of months.

  24. “Allow the youngest 89% of the population to live and work as normal and concentrate lockdown resources on the over-60s.”

    That was Westminster’s plan back at the start of March. One problem is that you can’t isolate the vulnerable, because unrestricted, covid-19 rips through so fast that most of the working population becomes infected – not for long, but in those few critical weeks there’s no one to tend the care homes, and the vulnerable can’t make contact with anyone in the working population. Another is that a large proportion of the working population fall ill at the same time, and you just can’t take that many workers out and still have a functioning economy.

    Yet another problem is that we still don’t know enough about long term damage caused by covid-19, and we knew even less back in March.

    My guess is that most of us will be taking the Russian vaccine next Spring.

  25. Lancashire Lad, it’s been closed since September. Squonk closed it because of bickering during the pandemic.

  26. Currently watching the eruption in Iceland:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O46nVKTdpBc

    – Updated 20.03 13:45

    – What we know so far

    – At around 20:45 UTC 19 March 2021, a volcanic eruption began at Geldingadalur, close to Fagradalsfjall on the Reykjanes Peninsula. The eruption was first seen on a web camera positioned close the mountain. It was also confirmed on thermal satellite imagery.

    – The eruption site is in a valley, about 4.7 km inland from the southern coast of the peninsula. The coastal town of Grindavík is the closest populated region to the eruption site, located approximately 10 km to the southwest.

    https://en.vedur.is/about-imo/news/earthquake-swarm-in-reykjanes-peninsula

  27. Very good that this blog is alive again!

    Very sad that Craig’s is not – there was a maintenance page up this evening, and it looks like it’s due to legal trouble 🙁

  28. I wish Craig no ill will.

    In point of fact I have nothing but good wishes for he, his family and many others who seem targeted by the UKs stodgy procedural law making prosecution, with deep pockets of state , look exactly like persecution.

    If you’ve seen the Chicago Seven on Netflix you can see some similarity between Krasner and Craig and maybe even Saschas Abbie Hoffman.

    ‘Same as it ever was’

    Fred?

  29. Regardless of the legal wrangling In the bog of English law, it seems overwrought self importance of laws endorsing behaviors in one age, while condemning those same behaviors in the next one, Fred .

    Does this not resonate with your views on governmental rules about face masks?

  30. Hello Ben. I haven’t had anything much to add about the defamation of Salmond. I was very disappointed with Craig’s encouragement of the covid trivialisers. I discovered several such covid discussions too late to do much good, and several times I got too angry and depressed with the same few misleading memes to effectively counter them. I’ve found the whole episode tragic. So many people believe what they want to believe; insufficient intellectual self-discipline.

    Have you had any vaccine jabs yet? I was offered my first a week or two ago but I haven’t had time to get it done yet.

  31. Clark: I’m old enough to have had dozens of vaccines so an abnormal reaction is unlikely.

    I’ve been waiting for the dust to settle on this real-time test on human guinea pigs but will get my first Moderna jab on March 30

  32. Ben, I posted quite a bit in the forums, arguing we should go for zero covid. Stef was watching the tennis from Melbourne when suddenly the match was halted and the public cleared from the court. Nine tests had turned up positive and Melbourne was immediately locked down. Trace-and-test put about fifty people into quarantine, and the restrictions were lifted just five days after they were imposed. Impressive.

  33. Yes, the vaccines look plenty safe enough, and pretty effective over the short time for which results have been monitored. I am told that vaccination stimulates antibody production several times as strong as the virus itself does. Development has been impressively fast, too.

    I’m a bit worried about next autumn in case immunity wears off, or variants evade it, or people get complacent.

  34. Rachel Thomas, Jan 30, 2019

    “I’m an AI researcher, and here’s what scares me about AI”:

    – Worldwide, people watch 1 billion hours of YouTube per day (yes, that says PER DAY). A large part of YouTube’s success has been due to its recommendation system, in which a video selected by an algorithm automatically begin playing once the previous video is over. Unfortunately, these recommendations are disproportionately for conspiracy theories promoting white supremacy, climate change denial, and denial of the mass shootings that plague the USA. What is going on? YouTube’s algorithm is trying to maximize how much time people spend watching YouTube, and conspiracy theorists watch significantly more YouTube than people who trust a variety of media sources. Unfortunately, a recommendation system trying only to maximize time spent on its own platform will incentivize content that tells you the rest of the media is lying.

    – “YouTube may be one of the most powerful radicalizing instruments of the 21st century,” Professor Zeynep Tufekci wrote in the New York Times. Guillaume Chaslot is a former YouTube engineer turned whistleblower. He has been outspoken about the harms caused by YouTube, and he partnered with the Guardian and the Wall Street Journal to study the extremism and bias in YouTube’s recommendations.

    – YouTube is owned by Google, which is earning billions of dollars by aggressively introducing vulnerable people to conspiracy theories, while the rest of society bears the externalized costs of rising authoritarian governments, a resurgence in white supremacist movements, failure to act on climate change (even as extreme weather is creating increasing numbers of refugees), growing distrust of mainstream news sources, and a failure to pass sensible gun laws.

    https://medium.com/@racheltho/im-an-ai-researcher-and-here-is-what-scares-me-about-ai-909a406e4a71

  35. Welcome back all.

    I just need to make clear that Craig’s blog and specifically the related legal issues are NOT a subject for discussion here for what I would hope would be obvious reasons.

    I have deleted some comments accordingly. If it continues I will shut squonk down again.

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